Topic: Rats in my compost heap

[cacran]

I have rats in my compost heap. I don't put cooked food or meat etc. on the heap, so is this a common thing? Will the rats containate the compost? Do you think they could be nesting in it? I am scared to turn it now in case I dig into one of them. :o

[Baccy Man]

Yes they sometimes nest in compost heaps. They will eat the insects living in compost heaps not just cooked food, meat, fish, bones etc... that people seem to think are the only things which attract them. You get them or you don't there is not much you can do about it. Turning the heap will disturb them, possibly discouraging them as rats are not keen on changes to their environment.

I do compost many of the things which are suposed to attract them but the only rats in the heap are the dead ones emptied out of the fenn traps, I do recall one occassion when the river was flooded & all the rats living on the bank were displaced where a rat moved into one of my heaps, a garden fork dealt with that... it was still in the heap but no longer living therefore not a problem.

The compost will still be fine to use.

[Robert_Brenchley]

I've occasionally had rats in mine, but poison soon deals with them.

[goodlife]

Yep..turn it over..and they will leave..

[antipodes]

If the heap is disturbed often, this scares them off.  Do they really do any harm? Hit the box a few times before delving in to harvest the compost, they will soon scarper or hide right in the corner.  rats are also part of a natural system of waste disposal, I  know I have one or several rodents on the plot, I see the tunnels. They don't seem to harm the plants and I guess they just feed off my scraps.
Sorry to be contrary, I would never put poison down, and anyway any poisonous substances are prohibited on our site because of the risk of posioning young kids or pets. Be aware that many poisons for rodents cause them to die a horrible and painful death. I would rather not inflict that on a living animal that is cohabiting peacefully with me on my patch of ground. Sorry if that is preaching, just my 2 cents.

[GrannieAnnie]

Considering the diseases they can spread, it would seem best to discourage rats. Remember the Plague?

RAT RELATED HEALTH HAZARDS & DISEASES

Here is information on common diseases caused by rats, as gathered from the Center For Disease Control & Prevention http://www.cdc.gov

Murine Typhus: Murine typhus (caused by infection with R. typhi) occurs worldwide and is transmitted to humans by rat fleas. Flea-infested rats can be found throughout the year in humid tropical environments, but in temperate regions are most common during the warm summer months. Travelers who visit in rat-infested buildings and homes, especially in harbor or riverine environments, can be at risk for exposure to the agent of murine typhus.

Rat-bite fever (RBF): Rat-bite fever (RBF) is a systemic bacterial illness caused by Streptobacillus moniliformis that can be acquired through the bite or scratch of a rodent or the ingestion of food or water contaminated with rat feces.

Salmonella enterica serovar Typhimurium: As its name suggests, it causes a typhoid-like disease in mice. In humans S. Typhimurium does not cause as severe disease as S. Typhi, and is not normally fatal. The disease is characterized by diarrhea, abdominal cramps, vomiting and nausea, and generally lasts up to 7 days. Unfortunately, in immunocompromized people, that is the elderly, young, or people with depressed immune systems, Salmonella infections are often fatal if they are not treated with antibiotics.

Leptospirosis: Leptospirosis is a bacterial disease that affects humans and animals. It is caused by bacteria of the genus Leptospira. In humans it causes a wide range of symptoms, and some infected persons may have no symptoms at all. Symptoms of leptospirosis include high fever, severe headache, chills, muscle aches, and vomiting, and may include jaundice (yellow skin and eyes), red eyes, abdominal pain, diarrhea, or a rash. If the disease is not treated, the patient could develop kidney damage, meningitis (inflammation of the membrane around the brain and spinal cord), liver failure, and respiratory distress. In rare cases death occurs.

Eosinophilic Meningitis: Eosinophilic meningitis is an infection of the brain occurring in association with an increase in the number of eosinophils, white blood cells that are associated with infection with worms that penetrate into the body. The organism most commonly causing eosinophilic meningitis is a rat lung worm called angiostrongylus cantonensis.

    I left out Hanta Virus which is only in the US supposedly.

[Robert_Brenchley]

Not only do they cause disease, but they damage crops and any stored veg, and they raid beehives.

[cacran]

Despite knowing all the facts, I am of the same mind as 'Antipodes'. I can't bear to hurt other creatures really. My allotment is near to a mill dam. I think there would always be rats near here and me killing the ones on my compost heap would be a tiny drop in the ocean. I just wish they were not in my compost heap. I think I will bang on the side of it before I try to turn it. I can't help but feel a bit squimish when they appear though ( must be a wimpy womans thing!!!!) If they were actually in my house, it would be a different matter though! I would have to put poison down, in that instance.

[GodfreyRob]

I have them at the top of my garden - where the chickens live. They have made a regular warren out of the heap where I pile the dirty bedding from the chicken houses.

They don't seem that shy in that they are out and about in daylight but they do run away when I approach-at a rather leisurley pace I think.

My main concerns are:

Thay might attack the hens?
Or eat/contaminate the eggs?
Would they also eat the hen's food?

I have not seen them do any of the above.

I have put poison down and lately some traps but I am not easy with killing them (horribly) just because of an 'unproven' worry.

[antipodes]

I have them at the top of my garden - where the chickens live. They have made a regular warren out of the heap where I pile the dirty bedding from the chicken houses.

I think in that case, they seem to have called your place home! They could certainly eat the hen's food although the chickens may intimidate them and they could also steal eggs. I think that you wouldn't need to poison them but you might want to chuck them out of that nest, disturb it, or spread it out. While I wouldn't like to kill them, there is no need to encourage them either!!!

IMHO they spread disease if you actually touch them. Your compost breaks down in the soil and if well composted, heats to kill bacteria. And of course you wash your veg thoroughly. rats spread disease when they actually live in close contact with humans like in 3rd world conutries, where they infest housing. In your garden, contact is no closer than in your normal surroundings, where rats live quite unnoticed by humans at the best of times...

[Unwashed]

I don't understand why people hate rats so much.  They're cute, intellignet, social animals.  Someone's done a real hatchet-job on their rep. 

Like GrannieAnnie says, take the plague:  The ubiquitous brown rat, Rattus norvegicus, didn't arrive in Europe until 50 years after the 17th century Great Plague, and the then-resident black rat's distribution didn't extend far inland so not only was the brown rat not responsible for the plague, it's likely that the black rat wasn't either.

Now take typhus.  Sure, it's killed millions, but that's epidemic typhus caused by Rickettsia prowazekii, and that's not spread by rats.  Murine typhus which is spread by the rat flea is nothing like as serious.  Oh, and I've also seen rats blamed for spreading typhoid, for no other reason than the two diseases sound similar!

And then there's Weill's disease.  It's a nasty disease right enough, but when you think that there are sixty million rats in the UK living virtually side-by-side with humans and it only causes an average of two fatalities a year, that's less than bee stings, you can see that the risks have been blown out of all proportion.  And as it happens leptospirosis from infected cows kills twice as many people, but there's not a febrile clamour to poison cows is there.

So sure, it's probably not good to encourage rats, and yes they will eat chicken feed, so if your husbandry isn't good don't be surprised if Roland makes his home under your shed.  But please don't put poison down because it's not sustainable and kills a bunch of other animals that have done nothing to deserve it, not least the raptors, owls, cats and foxes that will keep the rats under control if you just keep your plot tidy and don't provide too much cover for the rats to hide in.

[Robert_Brenchley]

I agree that fen traps are more sustainable than poison. But one way or the other I'm going to slaughter any rat that tries to establish its horrible self on my plot!

[Alimo]

On another forum I visit, people were discussing the amount of rats in supermarket warehouses, and the necessity of wiping / washing all items bought.

So, if you're worried about rats in the compost, you should also worry  about rats wee on the tins of food you take from the supermarket.

Alison

[cacran]

I think I will start wiping the top of my tins, now!!! :o

[Squash64]

I am very concerned about people on my site using poison to kill the rats.  We have some feral cats and if they ate a poisoned rat they would be poisoned too.

'My' feral cat comes to me every day now because I feed her.  I haven't tried to touch her but she isn't frightened of me and sits a foot away waiting for the food.

[attachment=1]

She still kills rats and mice even though she is well fed, instinct I suppose.

[Robert_Brenchley]

We have the Council rat man round the site regularly, and he always leaves us a bucket of poison. Despite that, nothing seems to happen to the cats who've been stalking the site for years.

[Jeannine]

Neither John or I could kill anything ,so it is not a wimpy woman thing.

But poison, oh boy, this is where I would start to get a wee bit tetchy if it was near me on a lottie.

Even here with herbicides  that are used by the council on grass verges outside homes , the house owner has the right to put a sign out that says "owner will maintain" then they pass the house by but rat poison is  a real no no on shared areas.

I think folks have to make up there own mind  on there private property but  not on a shared area. I think it is very wrong.

Sorry, don't mean to  be  as judgemental as it sounds.

XX Jeannine

[javahart]

Humans and rats have co-existed for centuries.  Its said that in built up areas you are never more than 12 foot foot from a Rat .....or was it a banker?

I saw one making its way across my lawn last week (near the hedge) to check out the compost bin.  I snuck upto to the bin and it was munching on the peelings!  I'm not sure who was more frightened but he legged it sharpish!  The body was at least 8" and over a foot with tail.

We have loads of cats but obviously intimidated by this beast  ;D