Topic: rents and tenancy agreements

[dedicated]

As I have paid the rent for my allotment plot am I still deemed to be in agreement with the tenancy agreement even though I have not signed it?

[Unwashed]

No, or possibly yes.

A tenancy agreement doesn't need to be in writing, though it helps to establish what was agreed if it is.  What matters is what both you and your landlord agreed to be the terms of the tenancy when you were let the plot.  If you'd be given a tenancy agreement with enough time to understand its terms and then you took the tenancy as evidenced by the payment of rent then it's pretty fair to suggest that you took it on the terms offered by the landlord.  However, if you were offered the plot and accepted it without any discussion of terms and only ofter accepting the tenancy were you given a tenancy agreement then it's odds-on those terms don't apply to you.

It gets a bit more involved than that so can you describe your situation more specifically?  Is there a particular term you're bothered about?

[dedicated]

I took on a plot 3 years ago; each year I have received a copy of the Tenancy Agreement; and each year i haven't signed it.

By your answer - this appears that I have still agreed to abide by the Tenancy Agreement as I have paid the rent and managed the plot each year.

[Unwashed]

I took on a plot 3 years ago; each year I have received a copy of the Tenancy Agreement; and each year i haven't signed it.

By your answer - this appears that I have still agreed to abide by the Tenancy Agreement as I have paid the rent and managed the plot each year.

No, that's not what I said at all.  Were you given the tenancy agreement before the tenancy started?  What term is at issue?

[dedicated]

Sorry, misunderstood.

I was given the tenancy agreement at the same time as I handed over the rental money and received a key to the gate.

[Trevor_D]

Why have you refused to sign the tenancy agreement? Is there something in particular you object to and feel you can't follow?

[dedicated]

there are a few of the rules regarding hosepipe useage; Termination of a Tenancy; inheriting an allotment & use of weedkiller that I object to; but I just need to know if that by paying my rent I am deemed to have accepted the agreement without signing it.

[Trevor_D]

You mean the rules of the site say that you can't use hosepipes or weedkiller, but you intend to use them? That sounds a tad anti-social to me.

Personally, for that sort of rule - meant for the sensible running of the site as a whole - I'd say they were compulsory, whether you'd signed or not.

When I sign someone up, I go through the Terms & Conditions line by line. They then sign before I take any money or hand over a key. No-one seems to have any problems with that.

If it's retrospective, that's a different matter, but if you knew what the rules were you can't pick & chose which ones you fancy. That's a recipe for mayhem.

[Unwashed]

I just need to know if that by paying my rent I am deemed to have accepted the agreement without signing it.

No.  There's no deemed acceptance.  But if you paid rent after you had sight of the rules then as a matter of fact you are bound by them.

Is your site a council site where the allotments acts apply?

Not all rules are necessarily enforceable.  What exactly are the rules you object to, and why do you object.

Amphibian, can you start a new thread with your question so the two don't get conflated.

[dedicated]

I started this thread off in the shoes of someone who had not signed an agreement but had paid their rent because I wanted to know whether it made any difference or not.

We are having problems with a couple of people on our site who want to change the rules to further their own personal ends. There are both very aggressive people and probably shouldn't have been let a plot in the first place but that was before my time.

The situation is this -
they are paying rent and they have keys and access to the allotment.
They haven't signed a Tenancy Agreement.
They want to change the rules and constitution.
They want to takeover the committee (not likely but possible - we have quite a few gullible plot holders) and chuck out the existing rules and create their own ones.
The existing committee have had to warn both of them in the past about transcretions from the Rules; but
1st question - if they haven't signed them; can the Rules be applied to them?
2nd question - if they haven't signed the Rules and Constitution can they vote or be elected?
3rd question  - how do we get rid of such troublemakers and go back to a nice peaceful harmonious small allotment site?

[Unwashed]

1st question - if they haven't signed them; can the Rules be applied to them?
2nd question - if they haven't signed the Rules and Constitution can they vote or be elected?
3rd question  - how do we get rid of such troublemakers and go back to a nice peaceful harmonious small allotment site?

1st question:  Haven't I answered this already?  If a tenant is given the rules before she accepts the tenancy then she is bound by the rules, though if you want to enforce the rules you might well need to prove that the tenant had sight of the rules first and a signed tenancy agreement goes some way towards that.  Without it you're going to have to produce some evidence that the tenant had sight of the rules before their tenancy began, and quite frankly a lack of a signed tenancy agreement strongly suggests that didn't happen.

2nd question:  What does your constitution say?  Is membership of the site association automatic or is it simply open to tenants to join?

3rd question:  just because someone wants to change the rules doesn't make them a troublemaker, and I'm not hugely impressed that you think it does.  Your site association should have a process for changing the rules and electing a committee which really should be open and democratic.  Your duty as a committee member is to manage the site on behalf of your members according to your constitution.

[Trevor_D]

My apologies, dedicated. The way your question was originally put I automatically assumed it was you who was the p**n in the b**t!

I sympathise - we've had to deal with folks like that, too. (Unless, of course, they want to change things because they need changing!)

I'd say questions 1 & 2 go together: if the rules apply - even though they haven't signed them - then they are members, can be voted onto the Committee, but must abide by the rules; if they claim the rules don't apply to them, then they cannot be deemed members, so can't be voted onto the Committee and can't continue on the site.

Question 3: do they cultivate? - if not, they're out.

But for all 3, the best bet is to contact NSALG.

[dedicated]

many thanks for your help and assistance.

at least this gives us some guidance on what to do next.

[PurpleHeather]

We have it written in our rules that a member agrees to them when they renew their tenancy agreement.

There is nothing to be said about people who complain constantly about those who 'are on the committee' yet do not join it to get things changed.


Other than WHINGERS.

[Robert_Brenchley]

What exactly are these peoples' sticking points? Hosepipes are an issue on my site, but only because the Council changed the rules without consultation, leaving people who used hoses freely for years in a position where they're likely to be threatened with eviction if they're caught using them. I'm not sure that one's legal. But what's the problem with weedkiller?