Topic: 28 day notice-eviction.

[Unwashed]

Robert, at a recent self-management meeting with council officials, we were told that the rule had been changed and that bee-keeping would be allowed on allotments in future.

But now say the council didn't actually get round to changing the rule.  If you'd read the minutes from that council meeting you'd be entitled to assume that the rule had been changed like the council said it had, and then if you started keeping bees and the council tried to stop you you could rely on estoppel again.  Good init.

[Squash64]

The rules on the Birmingham City Council web site say beehives are not allowed, but the rules are dated 1994.

Yes, those are the old rules.
They have just been updated but not made their way onto the website yet.

[Robert_Brenchley]

Robert, at a recent self-management meeting with council officials, we were told that the rule had been changed and that bee-keeping would be allowed on allotments in future.

If so, that's the best possible news! It used to be allowed, but some years ago some idiot had a single hive on a plot on my site. I've heard the tale from a neighbour who had the next plot, and from local beekeepers. He kept extremely bad-tempered bees, told his neighbour he should wear a veil when working his plot, cut the padlock off the gate at the top of the site, and insulted all involved, including a local Councillor who tried to mediate. The result was that beekeeping was banned. But there must be hundreds of hives on allotments round the country, and very few problems result. I've had them there for ten years with no problems.

[Geoff H]

I would have thought that was rather stupid and heavy handed of the council. Rather than ban all beekeeping would it not have been better to treat it as an environmental nuisance issue? ie. the idiot was preventing other plot holders enjoying their recreation, which is what they are entitled to. If i kept bad tempered bees in my garden that prevented my neighbours being able to enjoy their gardens then I would expect a visit from environmental health and quite rightly so.
In Shrewsbury last year they told an established beekeeper to move his hive off his plot, against the wishes of his fellow plotholders. I understand that that instruction has now been rescinded.

[Robert_Brenchley]

You're absolutely right, but that's BCC for you. To give another example of the same approach, they're having problems with high water bills for the sites. Instead of licensing hoses for an extra payment, which I know would be supported on my site, they're threatening to evict anyone caught using them. They don't come and listen to us when there's a problem, they just get some bureaucrat, who's probably never been near an allotment in their life and thinks we're all a bunch of elderly ignorami in flat caps, to make up a rule about it.

[Squash64]

......they're having problems with high water bills for the sites. Instead of licensing hoses for an extra payment, which I know would be supported on my site, they're threatening to evict anyone caught using them.

Robert,
Many people on our site would willingly pay extra for water (we have 12 standpipes but can only use them for filling water butts) but it wouldn't be fair if some paid and others didn't, but still used the water.
Or is there another way of doing it?

[Unwashed]

Geoff, good point well made.

Robert, I'd want to take the council to task over their behaviour.  I suggest that where water is available on site then there's an implied consent for the allotmenteer to use as much as reasonably necessary - we're gardeners, and that takes water.

My council have been making noises about the amount of water we use and they've suggested banning hosepipes - but they spend over £400 each year hiring a water cooler for the town hall!

Obviously, it's fair that we pay for the water.  How much do you suppose is a reasonable use?  1000 litres/pole?  That costs about £1.

[Robert_Brenchley]

I'm not sure; it's only a suggestion, and hasn't been discussed in detail. I don't use a hose at all, so I'm not the person to ask. You'd need to have some idea of how much water would be used in a year by the average hosepipe user, and base it on the cost of that.

There will always be people trying to take the mickey, but a rule that hosepipes could only be used with permission would be easier to enforce that an overall ban which nobody accepts. If nothing else, the mickey-takers woud be making themselves unpopular with neighbours who paid the extra. I do, however, wonder whether it's legally possible to enforce a rule change like that, when it significantly disadvantages some plotholders, who were already using hoses before the ban. Does anyone know?

[Unwashed]

Robert, no, Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 makes the counci's ability to impose arbitrary rules unfair and hence unenforceable.  Another one for Trading Standards.

[djbrenton]

A few years ago one of our allotmenteers brought a flowmeter in. We checked and a hosepipe used 78p per hour of water.

[tonybloke]

I'va also heard that a hose-pipe (15mm) will use over 50p worth of water per hr. Hosepipes are not allowed on our sites, but we still pay £6 per 10 rod plot for water (can's only). I collect about 4 tonnes of water per winter, in east anglia (dry part of country) from an 8ft  x 6 ft shed. why the need for hoses at all? if you use water too regularly, plant's become 'hooked' on it, and don't put down deep roots to find their own supply. Most thirsty crops need 20 - 25 mm per week, through the growing season. so, put out a rain guage, and water accordingly.
you are better off using deep mulches, than using a bloody hose-pipe!!

 

Robert, no, Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 makes the counci's ability to impose arbitrary rules unfair and hence unenforceable.  Another one for Trading Standards.

they could just turn off the water supply!!  ;)

[grawrc]

they could just turn off the water supply!!  ;)

Oh no! How would we make our tea?????? ;D ;D