Topic: Crimson-flowered broad bean and blackfly resistance?

[earlypea]

I also believe that ants farm them so removing ants is also a good thing to do.

How do you do that  without using something toxic Digeroo?

[Digeroo]

Boiling water and stamping on them when they emerge in August.

[1066]

And 1066 ...  Savory is also very good when cooked with the beans  ;D ;)

 ;D  ;D  ;D
I kept meaning to try it, but kept forgetting. Must remember next spring!!

[TISH]

any comments on taste? Although likely to try both as I love my broad beans.

[Robert_Brenchley]

Brown envelope seeds also do them. They're not so well known but I find them excellent.

http://brownenvelopeseeds.com/index.php/

[Digeroo]

I do not think that crimson flowered broad beans particularly good flavour but the flowers are stunning.

[mrestofus]

sound to me like another rumor with out basis.
As for ants Aspartame works quite well for killing them with no damage to other animals or plants.

[earlypea]

sound to me like another rumor with out basis.

Actually, it's an observation based on the experience of a gardener who grows and breeds an extensive range of beans (if you read the source you'd know that) so worth asking more widely in my opinion.  

Quite different from a rumour!

[Digeroo]

I heard the tip about freezing broad beans many many years ago.    Since I hate blackfly anything was worth a try expecially if it costs nothing.  The source was very respected but to tell you the truth the other contributors to the programmme did not give a very enthusiastic welcome to this suggestion.

I believe this works.  I will not loose any sleep if I am proved wrong by people's experiences. 

I only wish I knew of a similar technique to deter slugs.

[Robert_Brenchley]

There does seem to be a lot of variation in blackfly resistance. I tried Cosso Violetto one year, and they were almost killed by the things. I've never had any problems with Aquadulce Claudia (the odd plant gets covered but it doesn't seem to bother them) or Red-Flowered.

[Vinlander]

I heard the tip about freezing broad beans many many years ago.    Since I hate blackfly anything was worth a try expecially if it costs nothing. 

I read about an identical technique in Gardening Which but it was only being suggested as a cure for bean weevil eggs in the seeds - basically if you kill the eggs you don't get holes appearing in the beans when the weevils leave (and then go for your flour and pasta stocks).

This makes perfect sense (if it works) whereas the idea that a clean dry seed can affect a fly that appears several months later seems - well - highly implausible.

However it is amazingly difficult to work out what can deflect or has deflected blackfly.

For example - if you plant a short row every fortnight in Oct, Nov and March you can find (as I do) that some escape serious fly damage and some don't - and every year it's different.

My theory is that the ladybirds reach critical populations in time to save one or two crops out of 6 or 7, and it's a different one each year because they depend on the weather that year.

If you have an allotment you should be able to grow enough seed to do this at minimal cost.

To get back to the thread heading - I think the crimson-flowered one has a good rep because it tends to be planted late - one of the best ways to ensure there are lots of ladybirds.

Cheers.

[earlypea]

It's interesting what you say about sowing times and pests Vinlander because the general received wisdom is sow early avoid pests, but my actual experience is sow very late indeed and get none at all!

Trouble is then you don't get them to fill the hungry gap and once the french beans are with us, who needs 'em.

[Robert_Brenchley]

Dunno about the sowing late idea. The time I planted Cosso Violetto, I put them in late. They were literally black with aphids. I grow Aquadulce Claudia early, and never have more then the odd plant that's badly infested.

[Vinlander]

I've never had a March/April sowing that didn't beat the frenchies by 3 weeks or more. But then I've never sown Frenchies before mid April (indoors). And in my kitchen broad beans are a competitor for peas, not green beans...

All I can say is every year is different, and you can't have too many broad beans (*), so go for your planned sowing but do another either much earlier or later (or both) using up all your seeds - even in a bad year you will get your seeds back and soon you will be able to do 4 5 6 or 7 sowings.

I guarantee one of them will be much cleaner than the rest. It's never the one you expect.

* A good nitrogen fixer and a green manure if the worst comes to the worst.

Cheers.

[earlypea]

It's only my second year of growing vegetables so I wouldn't really know, but does seem the second year is totally different to the first and first year BB success, second one utter failure.

I am planning autumn sowing and late spring sowing this time round.  I agree Vinlander, it makes sense that with one  sowing or another you'll avoid trouble.  I have to grow them for the others anyhow because they love them.

Even if the freezing doesn't work I feel that keeping them cold and cool *might* make them stronger and less suseptible to pests - so I have frozen them this year and got them to germinate in the cold, now planted out without any cover or cossetting.

And my french beans, outdoor sown in April under a plastic cloche, they were definitely cropping magnificently this year at the same time or before some peoples' BBs but could be a fluke as it was very hot in spring and early summer.  I'll do it again though.

[Digeroo]

but does seem the second year is totally different to the first and first year BB success, second one utter failure

It is amazing just how different each year turns out to be.   It even varies from one site to another.  Having both the garden and allotment it is amazing the differences.

I think multiply sowings is a good idea, it is surprising sometimes that one batch will do much better than the others and another batch will totally fail.  The idea is to get them to crop over a long period but quite often they still all crop at once.

[chriscross1966]

It's interesting what you say about sowing times and pests Vinlander because the general received wisdom is sow early avoid pests, but my actual experience is sow very late indeed and get none at all!

Trouble is then you don't get them to fill the hungry gap and once the french beans are with us, who needs 'em.

Me... far prefer good honest english beans as opposed to anything associated with the cheese eating surrender-monkeys......:D.... seriously though, way prefer broadies and other shelling beans to green-beans, even the Cobras that did so well for me this year and were great.... I'd still rather have managed to get another row of Claudias in.... domestic authorities prefer green beans though....

chrisc

[mrestofus]

chriscross1966 french beans are not even french.

[Vinlander]

Any vegetable that has a place name in it is so-named after one of the stages on its journey to its new home.

For example the modern Greek name for oranges enshrines the fact that they arrived there via Portugal.

Lawrence D Hills reckoned that jerusalem artichokes got their names by arriving via Ter Neusen in Holland - though personally I  find the similarity with girasole a bit too compelling.

My main problem with the French is that they recognise good food but nevertheless go out of their way to make sure that all the veg (and especially fruit) they send us is s£!t.

I suspect they tried to keep french beans to themselves as long as possible.

It's bad enough that they keep their Braeburns in store until they are tasteless and then send them here in time to confuse buyers who want fresh zingy ones from NZ...

But personally I'll never forgive them for 'bertrand' - a particularly tasteless golden delicious (sic) sport with a russet skin.

When I bought one I thought it was Egremont Russet - I can't believe this wasn't deliberate - there can be no other reason for growing such a piece of c&@p!

Cheers

[Digindep]

With all broad beans I pinch the tops out..
the tender young tips are
where the dreaded blackfly start from,
 then work there way onto the rest of the plant..
often and mainly transfered by the ants ...
as and when the goodness has gone from the tips....
presumably the milk the ants extrct from the flies.. ???

For the past few years its wurked for me... ;)