Topic: "Organic" Slug Pellets

[digmyplot]

Hi

I have been researching this subject and have found that these new pellets use  ferric sulphate which make the product an inorganic pesticide. They are registered as safe to use by a government department, but this is not a permanent registration and it could be altered. Those aiming to adopt an organic approach might well be misled by the packaging into thinking this is an organic product when it is not.

For more information see http://www.digmyplot.co.uk/digthis.html

cheers digmyplot

[OllieC]

I tried them last year and they only had one drawback... Bonus points for anyone who can guess what it was!!!

[raisedbedted]

From your site..
"You may think me to be pedantic, but I try to create as harmonious a natural environment as I possibly can for my plants to grow, using natural methods, often against very great odds. I specifically do not use or condone the use of 'quick fix' chemical methods"

Then why would you be looking at any form of slug pellets in the first place?  Organic is a fairly loose adjective, it is not a noun.  The pellets you write of certainly cause less problems than those based upon metaldehyde.  If you dont wish to use chemicals then spread your crushed egg shells, or even coal ash (presumably that nasty stuff isnt a chemical?)

I try to garden in a way that protects and promotes the environment and the wildlife, do I actually care about labels... No !

[raisedbedted]

I tried them last year and they only had one drawback... Bonus points for anyone who can guess what it was!!!

I cant guess as they worked great for me, but even better were the growing sucess Garlic Granules.

[saddad]

Apart from cost?  :-\

[1066]

"garlic granules" - hadn't heard about them so will have to have a look into them. Thanks
1066

[digmyplot]

Very good Ted, perhaps I do sound pompous but perhaps that goes with the territory.

Nematodes would be acceptable to me but are too pricey, pellets too if they were a natural product. But that's not really the point I was making.My point is that these are being misrepresented. Bayer used to argue that metaldehyde pellets were safe to the environment until they latched onto this new idea themselves. What their relationship to Neudorff is I don't know but would like to.

Since you don't care about labels it won't matter to you, but it may well influence some people to by them


 ;D ;D

cheers dmp

Are these pellets safer than metaldehyde? probably but they are still chemicals.

[tomatoada]

Mine did not work.  Slugs carried eating everything.

[ceres]

I have been researching this subject and have found that these new pellets use  ferric sulphate

They don't.  They contain ferric phosphate, pedantic perhaps but if you're going to lambast a product, it kind of discredits the argument if you get the basic facts wrong.  They were first approved in 2003 so aren't exactly new either.

They are registered as safe to use by a government department, but this is not a permanent registration and it could be altered.

If you are talking about the Chemicals Regulation Directorate, they don't register any pesticide as safe to use.  They issue approvals (or not) for products to be supplied, marketed and used in specified ways and under specifed conditions.  The CRD doesn't issue any permanent registrations.  They are all time limited and when an approval expires, it must be re-applied for.

Those aiming to adopt an organic approach might well be misled by the packaging into thinking this is an organic product when it is not.

This product doesn't claim to be organic.  It claims to be certified for organic use which it is and the certifiying body is Organic Farmers and Growers Ltd.  A limited list of pesticides is approved for use in organic farming, where there are no natural or system-based alternatives, and then as a last resort.  This is one of those.

If you care about only using substances found in nature then it's incumbent on you to read the label.  Simples!  :)

PS I'd be interested in seeing a reference/link discussing the removal of the approval for Bordeaux Mixture in commercial organic growing.

 

[OllieC]

Mine did not work.  Slugs carried eating everything.

That was my main problem! The price was fairly academic as a result!

RBT - did you use them as you would metaldehyde ones?

[Unwashed]

Welcome to A4A dmp.

Organic is really rather well defined, it's just it's not always very well understood.  These are the minimum Organic standards published by Defra, and the various certification authorities base their own standards on these and certify a product as Organic by auditing its production against their standards.

That's what it means if a product is Organic.  In general terms the Organic standards ensure sustainability and good animal welfare.  In practice this often means that the use of agrochemicals is not supported, but that's because of the sustainability of their production and use, and not because they're chemicals per se (whatever that means).

It's a bit unfortunate that Organic was chosen as the label to describe that bag of sustainability and welfare issues because to a chemists organic means carbon chemistry and inorganic just means other kinds of chemistry.  Because in practice Organic farming uses less agrochemicals the label has reinforced the idea that Organic farming is about eschewing inorganic chemicals, but it has nothing to do with it.

[digmyplot]

Thank you very much for the welcome, Unwashed.

Thank you very much Ceres for going through my ideas with a fine toothcomb. Firstly I must acknowledge the slip in the posting, as mentioned throughout the article on my website the chemical is ferric phosphate. Regarding the other points:

1.   My information clearly states 2005 as in the article on my website. The packaging shows that the product has since changed from “Rainproof” to “Organic Use” hence my use of the word new.
2.   The information did come from the Chemicals Regulation Directorate.
3.   I don’t think they would give approval to a product they considered to be unsafe.
4.   The fact that the registration is time limited means that the registration may be withdrawn in the future – the very point I was trying to make.
5.   The product on close examination is as you say, but I leave others to judge whether it is as misleading as I maintain. Certainly I have read in a national newspaper of Organic Slug Pellets being available, mentioned by a gardening journalist for whom I have the greatest respect.

It was not my intention to lambast but present my views on a topic which interests me.  As stated in my article, “I fear that the word Organic has been highjacked as a marketing tool”. Whether you have successfully challenged this suggestion, again I am happy to leave others to judge.

Cheers dmp
 :) :)

[saddad]

Another welcome Digmyplot...
They are relatively harmless... to humans as the "active" ingredient is "ferramol" and is fed to anaemic babies... but I wouldn't feed them slug pellets as I haven't read the rest of the list of ingredients...  ::)

[1066]

welcome to A4A digmyplot
If you stick around you'll get used to Saddad's "humour"  ::)  ;D

[ceres]

I don't see any reference to 2005 in either your post or your website article so don't understand your point.  The product hasn't changed, the pellets are still rainproof.  The label has changed, presumably when they gained the certification for organic use.  I don't see anything conspiratorial about that.

All pesticides are unsafe if used improperly.  They aren't 'registered as safe', they are approved to be used under a set of specified conditions.

The time limiting of the approval for the slug pellets is no different than the time limiting of the approval for any other pesticide.  They can all be withdrawn in the future, so what's your point?

There are organic slug pellets on the market.  Example here:

http://www.angus-horticulture.co.uk/ProductCard.asp?Pid=7618

They are not the same thing as pellets certified for organic use.

I'd still be interested in seeing a reference/link discussing the removal of the approval for Bordeaux Mixture in commercial organic growing.

[Chrispy]

It says on the label, `organic use`, not misleading at all... suitable for use in organic food production.

And just because something is organic, does not mean it is safer then something that is inorganic.
All over the internet there are instructions how to make a `safe` insecticide using rhubarb leaves, but only a few mention how poisonous it is and should not be used on edible plants, or my favorate quote

Rhubarb leaves contain high amounts of oxalic acid. If ingested, your heart will stop and you will die.

[Digeroo]

Bonus points for anyone who can guess what it was!!!

I think that I found that problem as well.

[calamityjayneuk]

my favorate quote

Rhubarb leaves contain high amounts of oxalic acid. If ingested, your heart will stop and you will die.

that's nice and clear ;D

[Robert_Brenchley]

It's also misleading and inaccurate. The oxalic acid reacts with calcium in your blood, and forms an insoluble precipitate which totally clogs up your kidneys, so you die of kidney failure. These days they put you on dialysis for a few weeks till it clears naturally. So your heart need not stop, and you need not die. It's not advisable, however, to ingest the stuff in large quantities, and if you do, it'll cost the NHS a lot of money.

[BarriedaleNick]

Are these pellets safer than metaldehyde? probably but they are still chemicals.

Water is a chemical but apparently perfectly safe to drink - although not to access of course  ;D