Author Topic: Dwarf Beans winter challenge (Read 12624 times)

grannyjanny · « **Reply #40 on:** August 21, 2009, 21:41:05 »

Sholls our co-op give the black buckets away too.

allaboutliverpool · « **Reply #41 on:** August 22, 2009, 12:21:43 »

Tried it three years ago.

They just went black before any frost, presumably due to low temperatures and low light levels.

Not only is the light level about one quarter of the level of the summer, but it is also about half the hours
ie about one eighth of the light!

Commercial growers who buck the seasons in Britain use heat and artificial light, it uses less CO2 to fly them from Kenya - sorry.

Digeroo · « **Reply #42 on:** August 22, 2009, 14:08:06 »

I managed to keep runner beans going until the third week in November a couple of years ago but lost them in the end to frost. Still green and still producing beans until the frost got them.

Quote

about one eighth of the light!

Thanks for this ....liverpool. Maybe there will be some bean free weeks.

I sit in front of a special light in the winter to get rid of the winter blues so perhaps they can catch some that I miss.

flowerlady · « **Reply #43 on:** September 04, 2009, 10:06:50 »

So ... did you decide on a data ??? :)

small · « **Reply #44 on:** October 23, 2009, 19:57:58 »

I'm bumping this up - how are others beans getting on? I sowed Golden Tepee in pots mid-august, they grew well and have inch-long beans on now, much to my surprise. Since I wanted to give my greenhouse its annual scrub I've moved them into the conservatory - tomorrow I'll sow some more because these have grown much faster than I anticipated. It's made me reconsider what I thought I knew about when to sow, though.

Digeroo · « **Reply #45 on:** October 26, 2009, 06:25:35 »

I have one bucket full which are doing very well. Due to a bit of a senior moment I have forgotten which variety they are but hope to tell from the pods. I think they are Aigilon. They are currently in full flower so very pleased. One variety totally failed and one very miserable.

growmore · « **Reply #46 on:** October 26, 2009, 10:12:36 »

I have had Cobra dwarf climbing beans on the table for Christmas dinner ,but that was from a sowing in autumn in a cold greenhouse.. There's a lot of messing about protecting them when frost is forcast, bubble wrapping etc.
I am afraid I agree with All About Liverpool, to get em growing away this late in the year the light levels are far too low with the short daylight hours.
You would stand a lot better chance sowing mid January to get some early beans .
But good luck with it if you have a go and make sure what ever beans you are growing are self pollinating ..

thifasmom · « **Reply #47 on:** October 28, 2009, 01:54:49 »

mine all germinated then they all keeled over :-X.

if i had known the weather was going to stay so mild i would have sowed another batch, might be to late now.

flowerlady · « **Reply #48 on:** October 28, 2009, 14:52:10 »

Maybe too late for Christmas ... but surely if they are in ppots in a cold greenhouse they will grow no matter what ! ?

thifasmom · « **Reply #49 on:** October 28, 2009, 17:50:15 »

Quote from: flowerlady on October 28, 2009, 14:52:10

Maybe too late for Christmas ... but surely if they are in ppots in a cold greenhouse they will grow no matter what ! ?

Hmm maybe i'll give them another go then.

allaboutliverpool · « **Reply #50 on:** October 29, 2009, 15:44:29 »

I have been following this thread with interest and would love to be proved wrong, but I stand by my comments regarding the light levels.

Why fly them in from Kenya if you can grow them in England?

I had a 400gram pulling of runner beans yesterday. I staggered the sowing and these were put in as an afterthought next to a wire fence in mid June.

We have had no frost yet in Liverpool and the lowest temperature was 6C on the 17th Oct. Despite the warmth the summer crops like squashes are dying off but because of it there are new green leaves on the gooseberries, bursting buds on the blackcurrants, and flowers on the strawberries, - just waiting for a frost to temper their precocity

http://allaboutallotments.com/index.html

Vinlander · « **Reply #51 on:** October 30, 2009, 01:13:18 »

Love the glass roof idea Digeroo - it would also work as ventilation A/C in summer if the extra hot air could be vented - this is what our unlined loft does if we open the hatch.

Nice to see big beefy can-do ideas coming out - here's some more:

If light levels in a cloche are an issue then it would be worth putting reflectors 'behind' (North) and above the plants - old bacofoil stapled to plywood would do a lot of good - I've been thinking about this for a coldframe - if there's only bare ground 'behind' it then you are losing nothing by reflecting extra light into frame and leaving bare ground in the dark. If the reflector is out in the wind then stays and guys might be essential.

This is identical to the method used to create cheap solar ovens in sunnier climes. You don't need moving mirrors - it works enough while the sun isn't too far to the side - and in Winter the sun travels less so you lose less. You can also make the reflector much wider than the cloche to counteract.

Since the sun is so low in winter a reflector should be between vertical and maybe 20 deg max towards the sun - you could have a vertical one topped off with a 20 deg one - or if you have an E-W polytunnel then sellotape the aly to the inside curve - I'm hoping to find time to try this myself.

Frost is probably more significant and though the solar will help in daytime the total fix for nighttime is heatsinks - especially water ones. The best solution is a metal tank - oildrums or old attic coldwater tanks are ideal. Black is better and soot is better than plastic paints for letting the heat through to the metal - I'm going to try burnt cork (commando makeup).

This is what they do in New England where the winters are much worse than ours - an oildrum of water can keep frost out of several sq metres of greenhouse or coldframe.

I've tried this and it really works a treat - but remember to empty the water in Spring (I let it run through dripfeed) or it will stop the frame warming up.

A shedload of drinks bottles will work too but the plastic is an insulator so they don't react as fast.

This is real leading-edge appropriate technology ie. we could and should have been doing it 100 years ago.

jimtheworzel · « **Reply #52 on:** October 30, 2009, 01:53:05 »

Quote from: Digeroo on August 19, 2009, 12:28:14

Has anyone experience of growing Dwarf beans My challenge is to have beans all winter.

.

best of luck :'(

saddad · « **Reply #53 on:** October 30, 2009, 08:06:47 »

Although I didn't try this I just thought I'd report that my two "spagna" bean plants in the big greenhouse are still rampant... but I am loosing some pods to grey mould... :-[

1066 · « **Reply #54 on:** November 02, 2009, 15:13:15 »

Quote from: thifasmom on October 28, 2009, 01:54:49

mine all germinated then they all keeled over :-X.

Ditto :'(

And vinlander - thanks for the info, I've been planning to make some coldframes (asked a few q's on here in fact) and the idea about using reflective material (foil etc) to increase light levels sounds like it is worth a go. So thanks :)

Duke Ellington · « **Reply #55 on:** November 02, 2009, 16:46:08 »

Quote from: thifasmom on October 28, 2009, 01:54:49

mine all germinated then they all keeled over :-X.

if i had known the weather was going to stay so mild i would have sowed another batch, might be to late now.

Thifasmom !!! first the over wintered chillies then you tortured your worms living on the edge of the compost heap and now this!! :'(

Duke

Digeroo · « **Reply #56 on:** November 02, 2009, 16:53:13 »

Thanks for the info Vinlander I have used foil in the spring for courgettes, but some how did not think of it for the beans. Like the thought of the water butt in the greenhouse. Have one on order and was wondering how to keep it warm.

Water presumably heats up during the day and gives out at night. I put milk bottles of water in my cloches in the spring. I have one bucket full of great looking plants. Seem to have drowned another set.

thifasmom · « **Reply #57 on:** November 02, 2009, 17:53:01 »

Quote from: Duke Ellington on November 02, 2009, 16:46:08

Quote from: thifasmom on October 28, 2009, 01:54:49
mine all germinated then they all keeled over :-X.

if i had known the weather was going to stay so mild i would have sowed another batch, might be to late now.

Thifasmom !!! first the over wintered chillies then you tortured your worms living on the edge of the compost heap and now this!! :'(

Duke

what can i say Duke I'm a baaadddd girl

Vinlander · « **Reply #58 on:** November 04, 2009, 00:32:40 »

Some notes on using water as a heatsink:

Water warms up during the day and gives out heat at night like any other heatsink but if there's a frost it has an extra ace up its sleeve.

While any liquid freezes it has to lose a shedload of heat before the molecules can calm down enough to arrange themselves as a rigid solid.

Water is special in many ways and releases more than most things before it can freeze - roughly as much heat as it would take to bring it to boiling point - a lot.

Nothing near the freezing water can drop below zero until all the water has frozen or been locked behind ice - and if the frame is draughtproof and has some insulation this heat can go a long way.

Even during the last terrible winter in a slightly draughty frame I didn't lose a single leaf to frost - and only a thin layer of water actually froze.

Heatsinks can be too large and suppress the daytime warming as much as the nighttime cooling so water has the extra advantage that you can use less to get better daytime response and still get more actual frost protection than the bricks or whatever you would have used. Dick Strawbridge used broken glass - sorry Dick - a smaller amount of water would have been better, easier and cheaper.

If you really want to maximise growth during the winter then you need to walk a tightrope between too much and too little. Water helps here because you can top up as winter deepens and then gradually release it as the weather improves.

The actual quantities have to be trial and error until you get a feel for your frame and the weather. I'm pretty sure I could have used half as much last year but the main thing is to drain it in the Spring. Remember that bottles of water are slightly less responsive than metal containers.

Another thing - there's scope for using your compost heap as the back wall of your frame and even using a rain sheet to encourage the warm air to go inside - or moving the whole thing inside your polytunnel.

One more thing - air movement is important to keep moulds down - a fan is great but how do you power it on an allotment?

Batteries are OK but I'd like to try linking a wind-powered horizontal flue- or anemometer-type turbine outside via a straight vertical shaft to a horizontal fan inside. Allotments are usually windy especially in Winter - but my plants will probably have to wait till next year for this.

Cheers.

Robert_Brenchley · « **Reply #59 on:** November 04, 2009, 16:02:03 »

Could you use something like a computer fan wired up to a small solar panel and a battery? It's an interesting idea. I've been wondering about heat sinks myself, and the water idea seems workable (freezing a liquid into a solid always releases the same amount of heat as that required to melt it) and a lot simpler than anything else I'd thought of.

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Author Topic: Dwarf Beans winter challenge (Read 12624 times)