yes Robert I think I might have gotten to the root of the problem the ponds are both 2 seasons old and exactly the same type of plants but the problem one also seems to have acquired more life forms as in tadpoles and tiny mussels.
I cleaned both ponds at the beginning of spring to ensure there was no leaves etc. but on emptying the green one the bottom was thick with leaves ::) again from the oak tree close by (probably due to the high winds earl June).
the sludge content was also immense and I know the other pond hardly has any sludge. thankfully the sludge was not at all smelly so at least i know the oxygen levels are good like i said the oxygenating plants are pretty thick in this pond.
i removed about 5 litres of sludge (i did leave some behind as it was really full of lots of creepy crawlies) and all the leaves and replaced with fresh water which was standing overnight from the kids paddling pool.
hopefully the problem will sort itself out now for the rest of the season.
a new thing i found in the pond today was some freshwater shrimp ???, gotta assume its eggs came on birds feet, actually i think that's how the peacockle mussels got here too. they certainly weren't there last year and all the plants were brought as corms etc from Lidl last year.