Topic: how wide should paths between allotments be

[Eristic]

What ia an improper kid??

Brat with its tongue out.

[landimad]

I think we have all lost track of what we need to do for this newbie.
Welcome them and advise them, how else are the next generation going to learn about the ways of the lotties. We take them there to learn and to taste the foods that have been grown.
We do not scowl or shout unless they are in danger. That is the way we have been shown for years. It did me no harm to get a slap when I put a foot wrong or get a clip round the ear. But I was taken to the lottie from a very young age and so were my kids.

Yes, I too had a double buggie and it was hell 20 years ago, but we managed and now I have one child who is studying animal behaviour and another who wants to be a market gardener.

Stop ranting on about things and just help all those who ask for it. >:(

[CDave]

I help people all the time but only when help is needed. This is all an excuse not to take the kids out of the pram and put them back again. Just how hard is that?

You've all got to learn to fend for yourselves instead of sitting there crying.

This forum is not for help, it's for advice which I give freely and regularly. If I was on the plot in question I would happily pick the buggy up and carry it for the helpless waif but I'm not so I give advice instead. My advice is stop whining and get stuck in. She's making a problem where there is no problem. Women have been carting babes around for centuries without bother.

Loads of assumptions in there which ain't really helpful to anyone  >:( . My brother has 2 disabled kids. Twins. They are 3 years old. He doesn't whine - and gets stuck in. He can't take his kids out of his double buggy. Their backs need propper support. Oh - and he aint a woman. My sister in law sadly died.

[Bjerreby]

Councils provide allotments primarily for people to grow some food. Obviously, when people get together to grow their veg, then social aspects must be considered, but that must not overshadow the primary purpose of having allotments, namely growing fruit and vegetables.

It is all a matter of showing consideration and being reasonable. Has anyone heard of a wheelchair user renting a normal allotment, and then demanding that the Council paves the area and put in tubs so the wheelchair user can reach all the plants? Maybe there are publicly owned allotments for wheelchair users, but they will have been designated "special access areas" by the democratically elected councillors.

BrownOwl, what happens in a short time when your children no longer ride in the buggy, but dash about on their own two pins? Is it reasonable to leave a double-buggy wide path in place for donkey's years in the event another grower with a double buggy comes along? Must all allotments have double-buggy wide paths between them for years and years in case a double buggy comes along? I can see your difficulty, but I don't think you are taking other people into consideration.

I'm all for participation, but I am also wth Robert Brenchley on this one. Pop the bairns into a wheelbarrow for the last bit of their ride...........they'll probably find it great fun.

[brownowl23]

Some people are just so dammed judgemental on here today!! Jeeze get a life!!

You have no idea what Brownowl is capable of as regards to pushing or pulling a double buggy. You don't know if she is 6 stone dripping wet  and 5'1"and the kids are 2 stone each.

You have no idea if she has to get to her plot uphill.

You have no idea if the only times she can go to the plot is on the weekends, say 3 hours on Sat and/or Sun. Not everyone can get to their plot everday.

Your right I am a skinny runt, OK a bit more than 6 stone dripping wet but not much and im only 5'1&1/2" (that halfsf really important  ;D ) The boys are 22 months old (twins) and by now almost 2 stone each. To cap that I do have a bad back whcih means carriers are out of the question now they are older. part of taking on the allotment aside from the obvious of fresh veg is to help stregthen my back with exercise. A win win situation if you ask me.
One of my boys is also a Bear Grylls in the making unless strapped in, he's into everything at lightning speed. Hence the facts for double buggy access, until such time as we can educate them in to sensibly helping, and sensibly walking.They already have thier own watering cans and help water, both themselves and the plants :)
One of my boys was a late walker and doesnt walk well on uneven ground. so falling over is not good on brambe covered ground. He's currently keeping elastoplast in the money. access on the main path which isnt maintained is very uneven and not very wide either only a foot wide too in places is awful.
there are mainly newbies on our lottie with a couple of experienced much older lottie owners, and we are the only ones with kids. If at any time we were all there together at any time I would approach everyone and see if we can rally and make access better for everyone. There is no committee.

In our dream world once we put in alot of hard work we will have a toddler play area, but of course clearing an area for such has to be done first.

My double buggy isnt any wider than a wheelbarrow with a 6 inch gap either side which was mentioned by one owner. To get a wheelbarrow down our paths you end up strimming other peoples crops.

I had to laugh at the acceess for muck deliveries, apparently the site hasnt had one for as long as anyone can remember, something I have to say in the future I am going to try to remedy, ater all someone has to make the first move to get this sort of thing organised.  :) .

Oh and another thing that I didnt mention our lottie has asbestos, which the council when their wheeels finally grind fast enough is going to remove, but its another reason for not lettingthe boys out of a buggy to run around as I dont want them finding it and touching it and stuffing fingers in mouths.

I have to say I did expect alot of replys to be negative, Thats why so few young families do allotments. To those who replied negatively thanks for the welcome!

Thanks to all who offfered the welcomes. I hope I can pick your brains and learn from you all and have a very sucessful lottie.

I have had one in the past for a short time before I moved, with much much wider paths, hence the reason for asking if there was a general rule. Our main paths here meant you could get a car right down to your lottie, although that wasnt allowed, but you see how wide paths were.  I guess on that lottie we were all spoiled.

Thank you to everyone especially those with positive answers

[Hector]

Hi Brownowl, not sure if this helps but I've seen a wheelbarrow that has adjustable width (not good at describing but basically its material bodied and is a bit like a material stretcher with a front whee)l...maybe that can avoid squishing plants at either side AND give the kiddies a fun ride :)
Jackie

[brownowl23]

Brownowl,
                     That's a bit selfish spraying weedkiller this time of year, what about your lotty neighbours, ;)

I quite agree and its not something I wanted to do, but its that or lose the lottie. We will just have to try to be very careful I guess.

[cacran]

Hi Brownowl,
I can understand your problem but if you really put on your thinking cap there will be a sollution.
Is there enough space for a wider path?? If not, what is the obsticle? Would it be possible for you to put down a temporary floor board down, just to ue for the next few months? Ralistialy, you problem will only last for the rest of this year. could you leave them with your family whilst you tend the allotment? Next year they will be old enough to walk. Get them a toy wheel barrow each and teach them how to balance it on the narrow path. It can be part of the fun, you could get them a little plastic gardening kit to put in the barrow. they would have to be good and careful or the tools would fall out!
If you intend taking children to the allotment, as you obviously do, you will have to have eyes in the back of your head. Be prepared to consistantly teach them what not to touch, where it is not safe etc. If you cannot trust them to be very sensible, then an allotment is not for them. YOu will always find danger anywhere but more so in an allotment. Greenhouse glass, asbestos (always find some!!!) nettles, thorns, rusty nails etc. It all comes with the allotment ethos. My children are grown up now. they were well behaved as children and toddlers but I would still never have gone to an allotment until they could safely have played there. without some sort of pen and a comprehensive ' risk assessment' doing, it think you will have to re think your intentions.
I don't want to be mean and block your ideas as I love the fact that you want the allotment sort of life. Just get over the next few years by doing what you need to do on the lottie but get a friend or someone to go with you to share the childrens supervision. The years go so quickly you will be surprised!  :)

[Mr Smith]

Barnowl,
                   If you have an allotment association on your allotments why not approach them to see if they can put forward a bid to the Lottery Commission for a grant to make improvements to your allotment site one being wide paths for 'Buggies' from what I can gather £850,000 is up for grabs to improve allotments, :)

[brownowl23]

could you leave them with your family whilst you tend the allotment? Next year they will be old enough to walk. Get them a toy wheel barrow each and teach them how to balance it on the narrow path. It can be part of the fun, you could get them a little plastic gardening kit to put in the barrow. they would have to be good and careful or the tools would fall out!
If you intend taking children to the allotment, as you obviously do, you will have to have eyes in the back of your head. Be prepared to consistantly teach them what not to touch, where it is not safe etc.  The years go so quickly you will be surprised!  :)

Your right there is alwaays a solution. which is why I came here. others who have already been here may have solutions that ive not thought about. Thats what these forums are for.

The boys do have wheelbarrows with tools, we bought them a while ago and they are getting quite proficient with them and once weve cleare abit more lottie we will take them down there.

Your right about eyes in the back of your head. although with twins a little more like eyes on stalks that go round corners  ;D

I grew up with a very large garden. OK not with some of the risks on a lottie but I was brought up from an early age to appreciate where my food came from and help grow it. I work with kids who have no idea where their food comes from let alone see the plant it grew on. I am determined my boys are going to grow up enjoying producing food from seed to table just like I did.

Your right about years going fast, it seems like yesterday that I was walking round looking like a weeble awaiting thier arrival

[brownowl23]

Barnowl,
                   If you have an allotment association on your allotments why not approach them to see if they can put forward a bid to the Lottery Commission for a grant to make improvements to your allotment site one being wide paths for 'Buggies' from what I can gather £850,000 is up for grabs to improve allotments, :)

We dont have an allotment association on our allotments, but as a group of allotment holders on a site I guess we could do this as a group. I'll certainly look into it as the whole allotment could do with a real overhaul not just for me but for everyone.

Im not afriad of hard work and organisation to get this improved for the community.

[brownowl23]

Hi Brownowl, not sure if this helps but I've seen a wheelbarrow that has adjustable width (not good at describing but basically its material bodied and is a bit like a material stretcher with a front whee)l...maybe that can avoid squishing plants at either side AND give the kiddies a fun ride :)
Jackie

I saw these and wanted to get one when we went wheelbarrow shopping, not just for kids rides but the pracicality of being able to fold up and put in our currently misniscule shed. We went round all the B&Q homebase etc type stores and all the garden centres within about 10 miles but couldnt find one anywhere. Ended up with a big bright orange one which is at present the only one on site so we know if some accidentally borrows it  ::) It does have to live outside the shed though.

[KittyKatt]

Barnowl, firstly, welcome! Having watched parents of young children at our site, I am full of admiration for them. Having watched my neighbour struggle with her single buggy over a wide, but very bumpy path, I can appreciate a little of what you must be going through. Firstly, the buggy problem won't be for ever, even though it probably seems like it now! I can guess that sometimes they may be asleep in the buggy when you arrive and you would like them to stay that way while you get some work done!I'm not sure how many people's allotments you have to pass to get to yours, but would it be possible to strim back some of the undergrowth along the edge of your plot to at least make that stretch a bit easier? I know some parents leave their children asleep in the car, but I know that's only practical if you can have the car close to the plot. One family have 2 sheds, one of which has been turned into a kind of wendy house where the children can play. The door is in 2 halves like a stable door so the children can be contained but can still see out and feel part of whats going on. (These children are girls though and like playing with books and teddies and dollies, so it might not be applicable to you, but may be helpful to someone else!). Another family with older children has an area set up for them to play with swing ball when the kids get tired of helping. Would it be possible to give them their own little patch to grow a few things in, may be when they're a bit older? Another neighbour takes his 3 year old grand son to the allotment and he has his own little patch where he has grown carrots and raddishes this year.
Kitty Katt

[1066]

I am determined my boys are going to grow up enjoying producing food from seed to table just like I did.

well done on you!

You mentioned in your 1st post that its been tough to keep on top of the rest of the plot what with the kids and the fruit and the weeds. So can I big it up for weed suppressant?! It's great stuff, and you can get the really cheap stuff, which won't last very long but does the job.
I'm on my 2nd year, and doing 90% of it by myself (altho no kids to distract me / worry about, do get a bit of help from OH who likes the lottie and loves eating the results but he doesn't get the same kick out of it if you know what I mean) and am also on the smaller side of life with a dodgy back.
So covering areas and then planting through them has enabled me to keep on top of things, grow stuff and kill off the dreaded couch grass at the same time. And reduces the weeding which has to be a bonus :D


1066

[saddad]

As you say Barnowl that 1/2" is important... OH is 5'2"... and a little bit.. always going on about getting fat... now weighs what she did at "term" with the first... but he's 19 now... and still only weighs about 6st...  :-X

[brownowl23]

I know some parents leave their children asleep in the car, but I know that's only practical if you can have the car close to the plot.
Would it be possible to give them their own little patch to grow a few things in, may be when they're a bit older? Another neighbour takes his 3 year old grand son to the allotment and he has his own little patch where he has grown carrots and raddishes this year.
Kitty Katt

Our lottie is a walk from where we can park the car so its not practical to be able to leave them in it. Part of the reason for needing to buggy them down to enable us to take stuff to the lottie too. Hands can only hold so much, and although I employ the kids to carry things at this age it has to be unbreakable  ;D

I had a plot about 3' x3' from a very early age and intend the boys to have the same. I can remember being so proud of my first carrot that it went from ground to mouth in seconds complete with loads of mud  ;D
Just hope the boys dont grow into mummy habit as a child of eating worms YUCKKKKKKKK makes my stomach turn now

[saddad]

Have they reached the gravel fetish stage yet?
 ;D

[pippy]

Oh yes - I remeber that!  Every time I went for the watering can it used to be full of pebbles! ;D ;D

[brownowl23]

Have they reached the gravel fetish stage yet?
 ;D

Oh yes, thats how H (the late walker) got his latest elastoplast, trying to walk whilst trying to pick up pebbles, he ended up face planting the pebbles an skinning his knee.

Funny I can remember filling the watering can with stones myself now as a child. OH and trying to get the cat into the watering can too, he objected loudly as I recall. Knowing me it still had water in it.

[Barnowl]

What about the type of double buggy where one sits behind the other? Aren't they narrower?