Author Topic: Weed killer near a fish pond  (Read 12164 times)

Slug_killer

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Weed killer near a fish pond
« on: July 07, 2009, 02:38:11 »
Is there a weed killer I can use near a fish pond, or is it a definite no-no ?
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Ishard

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Re: Weed killer near a fish pond
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2009, 07:35:07 »
Its a no no.

except spot kill with salt.  ;D

labrat

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Re: Weed killer near a fish pond
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2009, 09:45:09 »
It depends.

Sprays are out.

It can also lead to problems having salt leach into a fish pond. Glyphosate on the other hand binds to soil and becomes deactivated and poses minimal risk of leaching into the water.

You need to mix up some weed killer in a pot and then on a still, dry day paint it on the weeds with a brush very slowly and carefully. But always leave a gap around the pond that will have to be hand weeded.

With glyphosate for example the problem isn't the active ingredient itself (glyphosate toxicity is very low because it affects a metabolic pathway in plants which is absent in all animals) but the surfactants that are added to the formulation and which are highly toxic to fish. There are special formulations of glyphosate to use near water but they are not available to the public.

The thing is I find that it is just as intensive as hand weeding the whole lot anyway. So may as well hand weed it.

Ishard

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Re: Weed killer near a fish pond
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2009, 14:05:57 »
Salt is fine in the fish pond, in actual fact I know of ponds that regularly have salt to the same lvl as the koi blood 0.9% .

Fish continually lose salt by breathing out so any extra that is used for weed killing is fine.

Salt also helps reverse the affects of brown blood disease in koi caused by high nitrite lvls.

I personally would not have glyphosate anywhere near my ponds.

labrat

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Re: Weed killer near a fish pond
« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2009, 19:56:47 »
I said salt causes problems. I didn't say it was forbidden. For starters you'd have no idea what your salt level is in the pond. If you came to medicate the pond in the future you would run a very serious risk of killing your fish as many medications do not react well with salt and lead to fish deaths. Virtually all koi experts that I have read agree that long term keeping of koi in salt coinditions produces weaker fish despite the short term benefits. In fact many koi specialists use reverse osmosis to strip all kinds of salts from their water. If you have any plants in your pond then salt is a big no no. And ultimately once you add salt to the pond it takes extreme measures to get rid of it - huge dilutions applied over the long term.

Ishard

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Re: Weed killer near a fish pond
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2009, 06:50:35 »
I certainly agree they wouldnt have much idea about exactly how much salt has entered the pond unless a salt meter was bought but for now lets assume this is an ordinary garden pond with mixed fish and a few weeds around it, ok?

BTW I said to 'spot weed' with salt, as in 'very little' not chuck it around in gay abandon, besides you are assuming that the pond lip will be lower than the surrounding soil lvl so that there will be run off into the pond water. We dont know that at this point.

Fresh water fish NEED salt to help regulate osmosis, this is called osmoregulation. This helps the fresh water fish to balance the water intake so they dont get water logged.
Usually this salt is taken from the surrounding water and put in the water by us with 10% water changes per week.

Im not, and never did, say that salt should be in the pond long term at all. Yes long term use of salt MAY cause problems with a thicker slime coat and/or medication use but we are not talking about long term use just a little leakage into the ponds from run off (if at all).
Yes I do know about the laws of diminishing returns to get rid of the salt and yes it will be hard to get rid of excess salt but eventually the fish will use that salt for osmoregulation.

A short, sharp dose of salt in a garden pond gets rid of leeches too which is a good thing, plus it kills snails which are in intermediate host for parasitic worms.

I think you have got the wrong idea about the Reverse Osmosis filters, they are for making hard water into soft water and to remove tds and heavy metals. This cleans the water and improves the koi colours. RO helps lower KH, PH and GH as well as TDS.

Ah Plants! Yes salt will kill plants and yes I did forget about plants because I dont have those 'pathogen hiders' in my ponds, (except the wildlife one) however plants can be removed from the pond for the duration and placed in buckets of fresh water untill the weeds have died and salt is no longer going into the pond, if indeed it is.

"Fish were exposed by emersion in Roundup™ (205 mg of glyphosate/l or 410 mg of glyphosate/l) in concentrations of 40- to 20-fold lower than those used in practice. Electron microscopy revealed that the herbicide caused appearance of myelin-like structures in carp hepatocytes, swelling of mitochondria and disappearance of internal membrane of mitochondria in carp at both exposure concentrations. It means that Roundup was harmful to carp when used in applied concentrations. Results of these studies enhance our knowledge of ultrastructural pathomorphology of fish organs following exposure to Roundup."

Ref:
Ref:http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6V7H-41MJ1C2-3D&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=953364599&_rerunOrigin=google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=61605f4be4d794ad7d0df6b4d7d2d46a






But hey this isnt up to me or you, its Slug-killers choice.
 BUT I will just say that IF Glyphosate or other weed killers gets into the pond water, even in tiny amounts then the fish stand NO CHANCE of recovery, they do with salt.


Cheers

Jackie

« Last Edit: July 10, 2009, 07:35:23 by Ishard »

tonybloke

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Re: Weed killer near a fish pond
« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2009, 13:08:01 »
a nicely quoted piece of proper evidence, well done Ishard !! ;)
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Ishard

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Re: Weed killer near a fish pond
« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2009, 13:43:08 »
"Thank you kind sir," She says as she curtsies.

Im a real koi nut as you will see from the links below. I used to answer peoples koi probs from all over the world and regularly 'mend' sick koi.  :) Besides Im a Bsc (Hons)  ;)

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/duncan.griffiths/jbw.htm
http://www.koiquest.co.uk/Telmin.htm

Jackie


 

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