Topic: sharing plots

[electric landlady]

PS - re subletting and unfair terms - a "no subletting" clause would not generally automatically be regarded as an unfair term, although it might be depending on what else was in the contract. It's a very common term in residential tenancy agreements, where it is entirely enforceable. (My day job is to give advice on this sort of thing btw) The OFT website has a useful section on the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contract Regulations 1999 with lots of guidance if anyone wants to know more. (Bear in mind that the Tenancy Agreement Guidance on the site is talking about Assured/Assured Shorthold tenancies and not allotment tenancies, so a lot of it will not be directly relevant)   

I would definitely get legal advice before trying to argue that a "no subletting" clause is unenforceable due to unfairness. The plotholder (not the subtenant) would need to show that the existence of the term was causing a significant imbalance in their rights and obligations versus the rights and obligations of the allotment landlord, and also that this was causing them detriment, and that it was contrary to the requirements of good faith. I think this would be hard to do  in the case of the average allotment "no subletting" contract term. The safest way forward would be to either sign up as joint tenants, or to split the plot into two bits with separate tenancies.  Or if this is not possible, to keep the whole thing informal between the tenant and the "helper", with no money changing hands.

[mummybunny]

Sorry corney Just read your message. Yes still friends all sorted  ::) working together and doing a great job even if we do say so ourselves  ;D ;D ;D

Lucy

[Unwashed]

It goes to show how a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.  I did think that the UTiCCR 1999 made no sub-letting terms unfair, but Electric Landlady's right, the OFT guidance isn't so definitive.  If it's important to you you could always make a complaint to Trading Standards and see what they say.  My local Trading Standards are prepared to take enforcement action against my own council over unfair rent increases, so don't assume the council are always right.

[cornykev]

Hi Lucy, I'm glad everythings hunkydory on the plot.      ;D ;D ;D

[Heartysoup]

That wouldn't happen on my site as it's effectively Q jumping and if the people on the waiting list knew about it there'd be trouble. Whoever's okay'd it may not be in a position to do so.

Having only recently got my plot after a verrrrry long wait, I wouldn't in all conscience be able to do what you've just done.

[gwynnethmary]

I'm 128th on the waiting list for a plot!  When I asked the very nice council lady, just today, how I could climb up the list a bit faster, she suggested that I visit the site and make enquiries as to whether anyone is willing to name me on his/her tenancy agreement as a "partner".  If I then work the plot with that person for over a year, I can  have first refusal if he/she decides to give up the plot.  This is in the rules, and so I am happy to think that I may have a chance at getting my hands on some soil.  I went to the site this afternoon, and have left my contact number with a very amenable chap who promised to speak to the Association Secretary on my behalf, as well as having a word in an elderly chap's ear- he's really struggling but doesn't want to give up his site yet.

[1066]

Hi gwynnethmary and welcome to A4A  :)
And I hope you get your hands dirty (so to speak) soon !  ;)  ;D and do let us know how you get on as I'm sure there are lots of people on this site who would be interested to see how it all works out for you.

1066

[Robert_Brenchley]

There could be endless problems if subletting was automatically allowed. You don't know who it's going to be sublet to, whether they're going to work the plot or behave in a reasonable matter, or anything. Doubtless a compromise could be reached, but councils often seem to be rigidly attached to a list of rules which are probably drawn up by some lawyer who's never set foot on an allotment in their life.

[Le-y]

I share my plot, but i share it with my inlaws who are using a portion of the back to grow their potatoes, they're not paying me for it but are helping me clear it and will be giving me all the seed pot's i need to grow my own (no doubt they will provide me with various seeds/plants during the season curtosey of their market trader friends).

[Trevor_D]

Perhaps I've got it wrong, but I understood that sub-letting was illegal under the Allotments Act?

[Unwashed]

Trevor, it was originally prohibited by S27(4) of the Small Holdings and Allotments Act 1908, but that was amended by the Land Settlement (Facilities) Act 1919 so that subletting with permission is possible.

[gwynnethmary]

Hi all!
I'm being very proactive in trying to get my hands onh an allotment.  I went to the association meeting last night and spoke to the secretary, who has already rung me this morning to tell me he ihas been on to the council on my behalf (i.e Why has this lady been told that these plots have been taken when they clearly are not being worked, and why are there so many more neglected plots than the council are owning up to? etc)  I've just come back from the site, and one of the "plotters" there has also been working on my behalf, and it looks like I may be on my way to a plot share!  Yippee!  I will keep you posted on the outcome.

[1066]

Fingers crossed for you gwynnethmary !

[gwynnethmary]

I am very happy!  Today I spent my first two hours filling fourteen bags of broken glass, bits of burnt wood and metal and other assorted rubbish from the plot I am now working as a partner (although I still need to get the official paperwork done).  I realise that I may end up doing a lot of work to have nothing at the end of it, except a great sense of satisfaction in a job well done, and loads of good experience, which are actually really good things to have as end products.  I'm also making new friends and meeting people I would never normally get to mix with - it's all good stuff!  If the plotholder drags his heels over doing it all officially I realise I will have to walk away from it, but I'll have learnt lots in the process.

[Flighty]

Gwynnethmary good for you on having a realistic outlook, which hopefully will prove worthwhile!

[Unwashed]

So the old broken-glass fairies have visited your plot too - they do get around, don't they.

[gwynnethmary]

And the broken pot fairy- I'll never need any more drainage pieces material for plantpots!

[1066]

good to hear you have got started gwynnethmary ! And what a great outlook on the sharing a plot thing you have! Keep it going and just keep your name on the lists at the same time  ;)

[reddyreddy]

I am very happy!  Today I spent my first two hours filling fourteen bags of broken glass, bits of burnt wood and metal and other assorted rubbish

Isn't it amazing what brings us happiness? It can be found in the most surprising places! There's nothing like a bit of job satisfaction on a job well done! Congratulations, great attitude!  ;D

[cornykev]

Nice one Mary, but do keep your name on the list.    ;D ;D ;D