Topic: Different methods

[Digeroo]

There was a post lsst week where I suggested earthing up cucumbers.  The next post stated

You don,t plant cucumbers in the ground you plant them just above ground level to avoid stem rot

I felt a bit critised by this post, but decided to give it a try.  Well the cucmbers that I did not earth up are now covered with little white embryo roots up to the colyledons and beyond and are just crying out to be earthed up so these roots have something to grow into.  Perhaps it depends on the varieties.

Luckily I have never had problem with stem rot, so will continue planting my cucumbers up right to the colyledons.

One of the joys of gardeing is that there are lots of different methods.

I saw some tomatoes grown in Italy and instead of one main stem they were grown on a cordon.  The main stem was pricked out and the site shoots fixed to a trellis.  Seemed to be very productive.  Managed to break the lead stem of a couple of my tomatoes so have decided to give this branched cordon a go this year.

[Deb P]

Sharing information about different growing methods and things that have worked for you is what this forum excels in, so try not to feel criticised!

I'm facing a similar dilemma with some of my cucumber plants. Three have suffered from stem rot before potting on and just died (you are lucky not to have experienced it so far!). Three others are desperate to be potted on, but because my greenhouse was full of plants for the plant sale they have been neglected, so have lots of top growth and some mini cucumbers growing. Unfortunately, the stems have cracked near the bottom because of the weight of the top growth. There are lots of mini roots bumps on the lower stem as you describe...so, do I risk planting them deep to try and get root development higher up, but plant the cracked stem below soil level and risk stem rot........or not? Perhaps I will do a combination and see what is successful!

[Tee Gee]

Sharing information about different growing methods is what this forum excels in, so try not to feel criticised!

I agree with the above statement!

I have been on this forum for over three years now and I have learned quite a bit and hopefully people have learned from me.

OK over time there have been differences of opinion discussed on the 'boards' and the word 'opinion' is the operative word, and I always remember that!

For instance I was always taught; if you find a method that works for you continue with it until you find a better method, and I have found quite a few here on A4A that are better than what I had used in the past, but equally there has been a lot that were not ............and thats just an opinion..i.e. its how I find it!

And Yes Digeroo I have sometimes followed advice given here to find it doesn't work, but now that I know, I don't follow that method again.

Who knows I might have picked up wrongly on information that was given, meaning that the initial advice was not in fact wrong, it was me who got it wrong, so I just put that down to experience!

As you rightly said you have found a method you suggested contradicted by someone else.

This other method might work for the other person so this doesn't make it wrong.

As it happens I use a different method from both parties involved here...............does that make my method wrong?............not in my book it doesn't.

That concludes my opinion on the matter and I hope no one find my comments condacending?

They are certainly not meant to be..............all I am doing is giving a point of view.............an opinion if you like!


Now back to the thread;


Debs I have read your predicament and I would say yes plant them deeper but the same still applies............protect the stem from getting over wet!

Be it by earthing up, forming a moat around the base of the plant or the plastic cup method I use!

BTW; this includes the cracked stem ones as well,  but success will depend a lot on the severity of the 'crack'

[chriscross1966]

I think the main reason folks do it the way that is considered "normal" in this country is becasue we don't grow non-determinate tomatos outdoors in the ground much .... fio you plant a tomato in a pot it would struggle to get enough water to a foliage system as big as a decent cordon could be.... if you're growing in pots it amkes sense to restrict the topgrowth on the plant to reduce the amount of water the pot-restricted root system has to supply.... just a thought.....

chrisc

[Digeroo]

plastic cup method I use

What do you do with the plastic cup? 

I do try and keep the area around my cucumbers fairly dry they are still under plastic bottle cloches and I water these from outside. 

[Tee Gee]

What do you do with the plastic cup? 

This;



Now I can splash water around the base without touching the stem!

[davyw1]

Digeroo, It was me that made that post sorry if you thought it was a criticism, i assure you it was not.
Perhaps had i put the link to a previous thread then you would have seen what method i use, which i probably very similar to what you describe.

http://www.allotments4all.co.uk/smf/index.php/topic,51118.msg518699.html#msg518699

[oliveoyl_25]

This is just a suggestion... I haven't done it, but it's what sprung to mind when I read the thread... for the broken stems - could you fix them up using surgical tape?

[Digeroo]

Your plastic tub does the similar job as my plastic bottle, I would normally have just taken off the bottle but I can see replacing it with a tub is a good idea, there is a point where the leaves touch the plastic bottle and are not happy. 

It would be nice to be able to repair damaged plants with sticky plaster or a bit of sellotape.  I knicked the top off my tomatoes should have stuck them back on with superglue. ;D ;D

Thanks for the link davyw1.

[davyw1]

This is just a suggestion... I haven't done it, but it's what sprung to mind when I read the thread... for the broken stems - could you fix them up using surgical tape?

If you are referring to tomatoes yes you can providing the stem has not completely snapped off, just done one with masking tape. I have never tried it on cucumbers never had the need

[Kepouros]

Digeroo and Davy are both describing variations on what used to be the accepted way to grow cucumbers - I am referring to the days when I was still young and had a dedicated cucumber house, the main commercially grown variety was Telegraph, all male flowers had to be picked off every morning before they opened, and All-Female varieties had not even been thought of.

In those days all cucumbers were grown on benches (above the hot water pipes), 3 - 4 feet apart, and each was planted in the top of a low mound of compost about 18 inches wide and 6 inches deep.  The sloping sides of the mound ensured that no water lay around the stem to cause stem rot.  After a few days the surface of the mound would become covered with adventitious roots thrown out from the stem at surface level, and these would then be covered with another thin layer of compost, and this process would be repeated every few days as more and more layers of adventitious roots grew out from the stem.  By the end of the season the mounds would usually be a full yard wide and 18inches or so high.

This same ability to produce adventitious roots is general throughout the cucurbits, as well as in tomatoes, which, when grown either in open beds or by ring culture will benefit greatly in size of crop by regular light covering of these roots as successive layers form higher and higher up the stem.

[chriscross1966]

This is just a suggestion... I haven't done it, but it's what sprung to mind when I read the thread... for the broken stems - could you fix them up using surgical tape?

If you are referring to tomatoes yes you can providing the stem has not completely snapped off, just done one with masking tape. I have never tried it on cucumbers never had the need

I once grafted a tomato top onto a potato rootstock.... hungriest plant ever... it was like feeding Audrey from little shop of horrors.... ten minutes after the miracle grow went away it started looking sad for itself.... took it to a local show and got the nickname Frankenstein for my efforts.... chips and ketchup all on the same plant ...... "Superstitious fools! Don't they see the good my research can bring?!" etc....

chrisc

[Digeroo]

Many thanks for your post Kepouros.  My soil is extremely well drained so I think I must have been successful by default.  Seems that there is problem to provide something for the roots without providing too much moisture for the stem. 

I suggest that the answer to the problem is several feet of gravel deposited by centuries of ice underneath the soil. ;D 

However my Zeina cucumber only seems to take off once the stem roots take off.

[Robert_Brenchley]

I once grafted a tomato top onto a potato rootstock....
chrisc

How hard was it to do? It's a good way of getting the plant to put its energy into producing seed rather then tubers.

[chriscross1966]

I once grafted a tomato top onto a potato rootstock....
chrisc

How hard was it to do? It's a good way of getting the plant to put its energy into producing seed rather then tubers.

Not that hard,

start a potato off in a pot ahving chitted it and taken off all but one eye (you only want a single stem afdter all), it wants to be fairly deep in the pot and what I did was to actually put an empty 3" pot in there with it ....
module the tomato in th enormal way but try to keep the plant at the side of the module adn when it goes into a 3£" keep it at the side of that too..... PLant out into the big pot next to the potato whjen it's about 4-5" tall and train the stems toghetewr with a twist tie or similar....once your tomato is about 6" tall make a sloping cut about 3/4 of the way through the tomato stem, and cut the potato top offwith a similar slope but all the way through wedge the two stem cuts together so that effectively both roots are feeding the  top, bind over with tape, I used masking tape IIRC with a layer of insulation tape on top....after about a fortnight check that the graft has taken and remove the tomato lower stem just below the graft and pull out its root, replace with fresh compost and plenty of fertiliser.... It will always loko like a tomato that isn't getting enough food frmo that point on really but I managed three trusses of Moneymakers and about 2 lbs of desiree....... in a 12" pot

chrisc