Topic: Are allotment plots too cheap ?

[Unwashed]

Hi BAK, nothing very scientific I'm afraid, I took the median from table on this page.  What's interesting is how much variation there is.

[SMP1704]

I think as a hobby, allotments are fantastic value for money.  In my area (Hounslow) the rent does not cover the full cost of running the sites - water, admin etc. and as a result the sites are largely neglected.

If the council could work out its overheads and charge a per rod rate that reflected an accurate cost and then provided a service - grass mowing, clearing plots, managing japanese knotweed etc then everyone would be happy.

We currently pay £5.50 per rod, going up to £5.70 in 2010.  I think an additional £1-2 per rod would probably cover the overheads and would still be the best value hobby around.  This would be a big step up for some people, so payment could be made quarterly by DD (simples)  At that rate, it would be high enough for the 'dibblers' to seriously consider if they want to keep donating money for a plot that they do not use.

To put it in to perspective, 5 years ago, I paid £120 for a year's upholstery tuition - run by the same Council and quarterly payments to help spread the pain.

So, yes I do think that allotments are too cheap

[Borlotti]

Just checked my allotment bill, it is £30 plus £8 for water, and that is a concession I get for being over 62 or whatever and also being a local resident, (equal rights for men and women, probably 62 and 6 months, can't type half on this computer). The Council cut the grass paths, just think of all the money they could make if they sold it for housing (hope that it is not allowed) so will shut up, keep quiet and be grateful.  Allotments plots are too cheap, but probably about £2 a week would be sensible and not too much of a hardship to people.  I don't agree that allotments should be provided by Council tax, schools, libraries etc should that everyone can use, but allotments are not parks which everyone can use and enjoy.  I feel I am privileged to have so much land as so little cost just outside London.

[littlebabybird]

in Runnymede we pay £9.20 per 25 m2 (rod) per year
after 1st april 2010 it will be £12.88  per 25 m2 (rod) per year

i think its great value for money
lbb

[BAK]

unwashed - fyi I did my own mini-survey in Dec 2007 and Jan 2008. When I stopped I had 89 samples covering ~160 sites (some samples covered multiple sites, eg Guildford and Bath). The average for a 5 pole plot was £22. If I limited it to the SE (we are in Berks) then the average was £26. As you have noted, there was a wide variation in the figures.

Re this thread in general, it is reassuring that the majority appear to recognise that the future of allotments may in large part depend on our willingness to pay sufficient rent (which will obviously vary from site to site and from area to area) to pay for our hobby. As others have pointed out, public subsidies for council-run sites (whether overt or hidden) are unlikely to be sustainable for what is in all truth a niche activity. As far as independent sites go, I am obviously telling grannie how to suck eggs here!   
 

[kt.]

Rents are fine as they are.  Why fix whats not broken.  It is people who write the rules who sometimes need to get themselves a bigger set of "cahooners" to challenge or even evict where necessary those who are no longer cultivating their plot without a valid reason.

[Deb P]

Our rents are cheap, and I would gladly pay more to continue a hobby that I get so much enjoyment from. It is cheap compared to just about everything! However, I also do not believe that making folk pay more for plots will lead to increased cultivation levels.

I agree with KTL that fair and comprehensive assessment and enforcement of the cultivation criteria is the only way to prevent the 'hanging on to' of uncultivated plots. I am now responsible for plot assessments on our site, and as soon as I joined the Committee two years ago (we are a private site) was constantly nabbed by disgruntled plot holders asking 'What are YOU going to do about so and so's plot next door to me that is waist height in weeds?'

What we did was do a quick assessment of all the plots to give us an idea of the scale of the problem, and then agree what 'fair' cultivation was. On our site this means 2/3rds of the plot under active cultivation, which includes orchard areas (fruit trees in grass) and excludes sheds, greenhouse areas etc. In the last 2 years since we started this, about 22 plots have changed hands and the number of plots that meet the cultivation criteria has risen from 109 to 141 with a further 7 plots currently being renovated by probationers who have 6 months to show they working towards the required standard (if they are having to clear a plot).

This has not always been a smooth process, and we have certainly learnt a few lessons along the way such as sending last warning and final eviction letters by recorded delivery so the recipient can't say they didn't get them as has happened in the past! It does rely on having people who don't mind being moaned to/about and a Secretary with a pretty thick skin, but having also committee members who will back you up and see the system is enforced fairly and consistently. We only sent out a few letters after our May assessments; two plotholders wrote back giving their plots up, two worked to get them up to standard straightaway (and have been moaning about it....but not to me! ;D), and the others have seen no action, but I'll look at them again in a few weeks and they will get final warning then out letters if there is no improvement...

I can't claim to have 'big cahooners' but I do have a strong sense of fairness, which is why I got involved in trying to improve things. In my book, you don't moan about something if you haven't at least tried to remedy the situation!

[trogg]

I didn't realise there was such a difference in rents.
As an 'outsider' my first impression was they're so cheap.
I've been to a few allotments lately, and something I have noticed is the uncultivated plots tend to be newcomers, or at least that's what I get told by the other allotment holders,so why do they keep paying their rent's each year if they not all that bothered  ???  A little hike on the rents might do the trick.
 A little off topic, but, one of the allotments I went to have started to split the plots into half and quarter plots, a great idea I think because it gives newcomers a chance to see if all that hard work is for them, also those who are finding it difficult to maintain theirs, could reduce the size of plot without having to give it up or struggle on.

Also reduces the waiting list  ;D
 

[Deb P]

The reason we started having a probationer period of six months when taking over a plot is to give us a way out if the plotholder realises working a plot is harder work than they expected. We have different sized plots on our site (the rent is worked out pro rata, some are odd shapes/sizes) but haven't as yet started splitting up plots.

Personally I have mixed feelings about them; I agree it does allow those waiting to cultivate something, but those are keen soon find out it is not enough room to grow everything they want to, and do you then go back on the waiting list and end up getting another quarter plot somewhere else on the site if all plots that become available are split? If you have shown willing by cultivating a split plot, will you get priority over someone who hasn't, and do you then have to give up your small plot for a bigger one? Could be a right can of worms...... :-\

The other thing is people get incredibly protective about 'their' plots. You don't realise this until you have your own patch and know just how much work it takes to get/keep it cultivated. Even when folk are struggling to maintain it due to age or ill health, some prefer to try and continue rather than ask for help. You have to be extremely careful how you approach such situations, as obviously there is a balance to be struck between keeping the plots as fully cultivated as possible, managing the waiting list, and not hounding or micromanaging established plotholders. Easier said than done in my humble experience......... :-\

[Robert_Brenchley]

We have a three-month probation to give people a chance to see what they've taken on. Plots are too large for many people when you add the work of trimming the hedges. No money changes hands, and no commitments are made, until the end of the probation.

[Salkeela]

Many thanks for the potted history of the allotment movement.  We are on a private site.  I think the owners are doing it as a jesture to the community they certainly are not going to get rich on the proceeds even though we pay considerably more than people pay for council ones.  There just are no council ones in our area.   Six people or no six people. I think that people should be able to get a government/EU grant for providing allotments.  Perhaps then there would be more.

This is interesting to me as I am trying to set up allotments here in a back field which I own.  I have 4 interested parties so far and I have suggested £100 rent for the first full year.  Plot size 8mx20m  In order to get these folk land on which to grow I will need to do the following:
Fence the area (estimated cost £400 + cost of stock gates etc)
Put stones on a laneway to make it accessible (£200 perhaps)
Apply for planning permission for change of use from agricultural to allotments (£200 for application alone)
Draw up a legal agreement (solicitor's fees required to check N.Ireland implications)
Additional insurance to cover me for others being on my land ( not sure yet)
Water - pipe work taps etc.
Then ongoing costs such as trimming hedge down one side, keeping area tidy etc.

Obviously this is not going to give me much to play with.  At the moment I am thinking of 10 plots.  If I add my time to the costs at minimum wage then the out goings would be high.  I see this taking a few years before break even point.

Round here folk are keen to get plots of land and prepared to pay a bit because there are such long lists on council plots.  I know other private enterprises are charging more than I am.  I hope I don't have to raise my costs just to keep the idea solvent.

I wish some-one in government would suggest that a good way to increase allotment provision would be to reduce the costs of application for change of land use.  The £200 for an application shocked me!

Digeroo what are the charges on your site?  Do you mind sharing?

[saddad]

Welcome to A4A Salkeela... hope it goes OK and you manage to set up a site..  :)

[ceres]

I see this taking a few years before break even point.

Most investments involving land will not break even in the first year so perhaps your expectations are unrealistic.

That said, private sites can charge whatever they like so the market will decide what rent is achievable.  You may be able to keep your 10 plots full charging £1000 pa for each, if so good luck to you.

[Salkeela]

I see this taking a few years before break even point.

Most investments involving land will not break even in the first year so perhaps your expectations are unrealistic.

I don't think I ever suggested break even in the first year!  As I said "a few years before break even point" - How is that unrealistic?

Also remember I am not trying to buy the land as part of this... I already own it. &  I'm not sure why you've made a dig about charging £1000 pa?  I really don't see this as a profit making venture - not even in the future.  I have some really nice folk interested. & I want to do my best for them, but I cannot afford to be a charity - or for this venture to be an ongoing drain on my own limited income.

Those who are lucky enough to have council plots really do get an outstanding deal.

@Saddad thanks for the welcome. 

[liefste]

I think if you can afford to put £10 on your mobile phone, have sky TV and use a tumble dryer you are not hard up.....!!!! I can't even afford to top up my phone at the moment. But I have my own allotment, and i don't moan about the price of it.. ( more the initial outlay, Shed, water butts, equipment etc etc)..
If you can afford the luxuries of life, like  buying your food from Marks and spencers each week,  getting your hair done once a month, and going abroad every year should think yourself very lucky and privaleged indeed.
Maybe a means tested Rent is fairer... ??? 

[Eristic]

Welcome Salkeela.

Given that you already own the land then really you should be prepared to swallow the startup costs. What is more important is the recurring annual costs to you and assuming they are substantially less than the £1,000 estimated income then you are a winner.

Most important is the uptake. 4 plots let at £100 each returns less than 10 plots let at £50 each. Empty plots will break you.

Good luck.