Topic: manure to fresh ?

[staris]

i've been having problems mainly with my broad beans with damage to the top leaves which looks like aminopyralid damage.
today one of our allotment holders went to see the farmer to ask if he sprays with anything using aminopyralid, he said he has never used it and he doesn't buy any feed in from anywhere else, several of us got drops of manure from him and i'm the only one having problems.
when the manure was dropped mine looked different to everyone elses, the farmer says this is because the load that i got was where the beasts were walking in and was trampled more and it's also got a lot more urine in it, the manure still looks very wet inside, he's suggested that the damage is because the manure is far to fresh to be used and this has damaged the beans, we have had a few drops of manure of him before and everthing has been ok so i think he's telling us the truth, just wondered what peoples thoughts are on this.
there is also some damage to a couple of my tomato plants ,but none on my peppers, chilli plants and cucumbers.

http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/6920/img0276t.jpg
http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/3131/img0273i.jpg

[daileg]

the photo you provided isnt clear enough but looking at the soil there growing in looks ok to me unless you can provid a photo of the damaged area more clearly cant offer any more advice

[staris]

it's mainly the top leaves that are tightly curled ,there is no manure on the top of the soil it's burried in the trench, some of the nettles around the manure pile have curled up leaves.

[Bjerreby]

I can't say why the leaves are curling, but could it be excess nitrogen? Otherwise, I was a bit surprised you had spread manure where you were to grow beans.

Beans need no extra nitrogen from us, they get what they need naturally. My beans grow where the onions and leeks were last year, and apart from a bit of compost last autumn and some seaweed foliar spray, I don't feed any of the beans or peas.

This business of digging a trench for beans confuses me too. I'd say what people are achieving is mositure retention, and that is what makes the plants grow well, not nitrogen. I get the same mositure retention by having dug in a mass of seaweed when I established the beds in the first place. I'd say that high percentages of organic material in the soil makes trench digging for beans unnecessary.

When the beans and peas are finished, I cut them down to ground level, leaving the roots in. I apply a big load of compost and plant cabbages.

In fact, the only time I would put fresh manure directly on the ground, is when I have just dug a new bed. I wouldn't plant in it for 12 months.

The best place for manure is in the compost heap I think.

[ceres]

The farmer that sold contaminated manure to my site last year denied spraying too.  He lied.  If you don't want to believe the opinions you've had here you should ask the experts.  You'll need to take better pictures and send them to the CRD.

pesticides@hse.gsi.gov.uk

[daxzen]

fresh manure is not a good idea - the bacteria trying to rot it down steal nitrogen out of the soil

When i have a load of manure at the wrong time - I compost it for as long as i can and then i spread it deep and expose it all to the air and it gets assimilated over a   couple of months

This year I used the muck to mulch underneath my taters which I have planted in poly sacks this year

works a treat and later in the season  it 'll be ready for a  new crop to be planted in it

need to know where the muck comes from first...

[Kea]

Fresh manure burns the plants that looks more like herbicide damage. People do not always tell the truth, he might have used a herbicide near the pile of manure rather than on the crop and if he was asked specifically about one herbicide then he might be telling the truth but he may have used another different herbicide just to kill some weeds around the farm yard and because he was only asked about aminopyralid he didn't mention using another one.

My neighbour lied to me when I asked him if he used weedkiller on his lawn( he nearly killed my flowering currant and did kill some perennials), then this year I saw him using one of the lawn care products and I realised either he didn't know they have weedkiller in them or he was being economical with the truth.

[staris]

it's not that i don't believe the opinions that i have got from here , i just thought he had a reasonable explanation as he has suppiled several people from the same bire and i'm the only one with a problem.
i only asked as to wether this may be done to strong manure full of urine as i've no idea my self what burn damage or herbicide damage is like.
i've mailed some pictures to the RHS and will do the same with the pesticides people, i've also started the bean test to see what happens.
as to me putting fresh manure in the trench the only reason i did that is it's my first year and i was watching everyone else dig a trench and fill it with manure so i assumed that was the way to do it even if mine was a bit fresh  :)

[shirlton]

We don't use our manure until we've had it at the very least a year.

[staris]

i'm really put off getting any manure now in the future what else can you do other than ask if it's been sprayed even then you can't be sure, the last thing i need is to be stuck with another 8 ton pile of manure i can't use.

[sunloving]

Hi Staris
If you have been got by the amino pyrialid it is really disheartening at first, and then you start to think about this broken link in the organic chain between stables and organic gardeners and it makes you think how serious this could be.

Since we were wiped out last year we have avoided all manure (even though previously it was the best thing for all sorts of stuff). Now i use pelleted rooster poo (which has pretty dodgy origins) and grass cuttings as a mulch.
Its not the same but think about mulches and feritlisers together on your crops and flowers until such time as hopefully we can all trust manures again.

My dad made the mistake of using some older manure that he assumed would be okay since it was 18 months old. Now his tomatoes are curling and his greenhouse is once more containmated.

A well rotted bag of manure is really hard to resist becuase its such great stuff (i know only a gardener could get excited about horse poo!) but Dow and its customers have ruined this ancient chain. Shame on them.

Hope yours is just to fresh any more news from your plot neighbours?

[staris]

everyone else who has had the manure is fine no symptoms at all it's only mine that seems to have a problem, i did post on another forum and someone has said they have seem similar damage caused by to much urine in the manure especially if it's from beef cattle which it was.
i've taken the cover off the manure it's still very wet inside, so the jury is still out i'm growing some beans so i will see what happens to them, a lot of people seem to be suggesting that if it's herbicide damage it should be affecting the whole plant and not just the tops have you any experience of this.

[lewic]

Your tomatoes look just like the ones in my plastic greenhouse. They havent had any manure near them, but the top leaves and flowers got fried in the heat.

[tim_n]

Get some chicken pellet manure.  Does a top job and is fairly cheap.  It also stores in a handy bucket you can even leave out in the rain without needing a shed.

Last lot of manure that I got is currently rotting down in the compost and I've planted a squash on it.  It's thriving, therefore it's unlikely to be infected.

I've planted into nothing but fresh manure and didn't have many problems - it was too rich for tomatoes and beans (they did wither and die) however the rhubarb loved it as did the potatoes.  Now I get really good yields.