Topic: cat's toilet..!

[carbonel11]

Can I ask why you'd chip a house cat?
G x

When I got the cats, I didn't know if they were going to be house cats or not. So whilst they were having their vaccinations, they were chipped at the same time.

However upon speaking to friends who have cats and let them out and friends who keep them in, I decided that the best quality of life for the cats would to have them as house cats.

In response to carbonel, I take it by your lack of response you dont know any one with house cats and are looking at this subject with blinkers on and have no personal experience of house cats at all.

Also does carbonel place less value on an ordinary moggie. With that inference if you lost your cat, would that not concern you? ordinary moggie or not, probably not, to you it is only a cat, that is only instinctual, has no emotions and can easily be replaced by another kitten!!!

You are starting to sound like a scientist, who works in a lab on animals.

I have replied to your query. If you would do me the courtesy of reading my posts properly you will see this.

I place no more intrinsic value or worth on a moggie as appossed to blue bloodied pedigree but unfortunately some do. I doubt a burglar would steal either actually, but just might take the pedigree to sell !

Not all scientists work in labs or are vivisectionists. I can see nothing that I have written that could lead you to this conclusion and suspect you are employing emotive posing to try and shore up your failing arguement.

You still fail to condemn those on this thread who have proposed harm to these wonderful animals. Perhaps you did not read my invitations to do so ?

On another point what happens to the cats when you and your partner are out ?

You condemn all cat owners who allow their cats access to the outside as irresponsible but now reveal you once considered this as an option. Perhaps the issue is not as black and white as you first suggested?

[cjb02]

You have not replied to the query at all. You still haven't stated whether you know any one with a house cat or not and whether you are speaking from a knowledgeable point of view or just one of speculation.

As for the value of an animal or pet, you implied other wise in your text previous postings.

Due to you initially implying that cats don't have emotions and are only instinctive and referencing science journals that indeed did lead me to speculate as to whether you are some one who would do harm to animal in the name of science. Some one who doesn't believe cats have emotions/feeling would be an opinion created purely to condone some ones mistreating of an animal.

If you read my previous posts, you will have clearly see that I indeed did read your previous invitations and addressed them. I do indeed fail to condemn others on this thread who propose harm to cats. They are still entitled to their belief and I still respect them for their honesty. The onus still lies with the cat owner to responsible look after their pets. It is irrelevant whether an individual means to harm a cat on purpose or not. Cats far too often come to a great deal of harm whilst roaming openly. It does not matter if a lilly was planted on purposes to harm a cat or for the natural beauty when a cat eats it. It does not matter if cats are fighting over territory or not, if ones is fatally wounded or seriously hurt, the fact is, the cat is still the one that suffers, not me, not you and not the owner.

As for my cats, when my home is empty, they have free run of the house.

You make remark about myself, considering letting my cats out, yes I did. It would be irresponsible not to consider all options and research the pro's and con's of each before making a decision, for me the important part was speaking to people who had done both. Once the options are considered yes it is black and white.  The turning point was my local vet see house cats as having a good quality of life and my friend who volunteers for the local cat charity also endorses it, herself having house cats (some of them being rescue cats).

This is where you arguments fails, as it is quite apparent you have never encountered a house cat first hand so are not in a position to comment.

[carbonel11]

I did not suggest a cat has a moral code. I am simply arguing that a cat can have a fulfilled life as a house cat. no less no more and does have emotions and an excellent quality of life that is not suppressed by living in a house.[/color]

I do not believe they do have as fulfilled a life.

As for the comparison to a truly wild animal, the same reasoning cannot be applied. Simply because lions are wild animals, where as cats are bred as pets.

Aaah so your logic on animal welfare does not extend all the way to a black and white solution ( to quote yourself , interesting ...........) As I said a pet cat can have the advantages of both wild and captive life you are denying your cats the benefits.

I wont retract my remarks about people being honest in their dislike for cats, they are entitled to their beliefs just as the next person. The onus is on the cat owner to keep their pet in this case cats under control and safe. To many people let their cats roam free with scant regard for other people or animals and expect everyone else to do their job of looking after their cat. That was my original argument. Cat owners who let their cats out are irresponsible.

Total tosh, people are entitled not to like cats people are not entitled to beliefs that harm, maim or kill cats because they poo and nobody seriously concerned about animal welfare would say so! You have not spoken one word in rebuff to these cat haters. I invite you to do so now!

You still never answered my query of do you know any house cats and their owners to genuinely comment on whether it is wrong for a cats well being. I am just curious if you are speaking from personal experience or just object through assumption.

I did not realise you had asked this, yes I have. A friend made the misjudgement of keeping two siamese once , housebound in their high rise flat. The cats were always trying to escape and after a very narrow escape on the balcony the friend made the wise decision to rehome her cats to a third party with access to a garden.

At best you are seriously misguided in your beliefs. The onus in law thank god is for people to behave in a humane way towards cats.Your words would seem to be efforts to justify such evil actions by saying its the owners fault and if such I find that appalling. I invite you to clarify your meaning.

As you can clearly see cjb02 you are wrong yet again, I have very clearly responded to your query but why let facts get in the way of your arguement ehh?

The fact that you rewrite and misrepresent my views lends no credibility to your arguement!

The fact that you refuse to condemn those who offer violence towards these cherised animals will repulse the vast majority of responsible cat owners whether they keep house cats or not. This truelly underlines your false front as being concerned with animal welfare.

Your pets have free run of the house when no one is in but no way to get out. What if there was a fire ?

You allow that you have changed your mind once on this issue but still maintain that there is only black or white. Well I suppose you could be the equivalent of a born again housecat keeper.

I am posting here the guidlines from that well respected welfare organisation the RSPCA

What do cats need?


Companionship - to be with other cats or people for at least part of the day.
A balanced diet - make sure there are no bones in your cat's food.
A constant supply of fresh, clean water.
A garden or safe place to play and exercise every day, away from busy roads.
Somewhere warm and cosy to sleep.
To be brushed regularly, particularly when shedding their coats. Long-haired cats need to be brushed every day.
A scratching post.
Help to clean their teeth. You can brush or rub their teeth with special toothpaste. They also need to have their teeth checked regularly by the vet.
To come and go as they please - a cat flap is ideal.
To be trained to use a litter tray.
To be microchipped in case they get lost.
Cat neutering should be carried out as early as possible in order to avoid unwanted litters. Most cats are sexually mature at six months, but some cats can become pregnant as early as five months. Therefore, the ideal age to neuter your cat is between four and five months.
To be taken to a vet if they are ill or injured.
Injections to prevent certain serious diseases.
Worming and regular flea treatments.
To be looked after when you are away on holiday.

I highlight in red the points that might interest you.

[Robert_Brenchley]

I wish you two would either drop it or take it offlist!

[BarriedaleNick]

I personally am with carbonel11 on this.  I would never force my cats to spend their entire lives indoors - they can come and go as they want through a electronic catflap.  None of them have never come to any harm in over 20 years so I take exception to being labelled irresponsible.   I am not condemning anyone who chooses to do differently - keep your cats in as you want cjb02 but do not insult me for not sharing your opinion.

[carbonel11]

I wish you two would either drop it or take it offlist!

I have thought from the beginning that this topic would be better of in the off topic chat forum. So agree in that sense . Anyhow off down the lottie, break in rain, C U laters  ;D

[cjb02]

I did not suggest a cat has a moral code. I am simply arguing that a cat can have a fulfilled life as a house cat. no less no more and does have emotions and an excellent quality of life that is not suppressed by living in a house.[/color]

I do not believe they do have as fulfilled a life.

As for the comparison to a truly wild animal, the same reasoning cannot be applied. Simply because lions are wild animals, where as cats are bred as pets.

Aaah so your logic on animal welfare does not extend all the way to a black and white solution ( to quote yourself , interesting ...........) As I said a pet cat can have the advantages of both wild and captive life you are denying your cats the benefits.

I wont retract my remarks about people being honest in their dislike for cats, they are entitled to their beliefs just as the next person. The onus is on the cat owner to keep their pet in this case cats under control and safe. To many people let their cats roam free with scant regard for other people or animals and expect everyone else to do their job of looking after their cat. That was my original argument. Cat owners who let their cats out are irresponsible.

Total tosh, people are entitled not to like cats people are not entitled to beliefs that harm, maim or kill cats because they poo and nobody seriously concerned about animal welfare would say so! You have not spoken one word in rebuff to these cat haters. I invite you to do so now!

You still never answered my query of do you know any house cats and their owners to genuinely comment on whether it is wrong for a cats well being. I am just curious if you are speaking from personal experience or just object through assumption.

I did not realise you had asked this, yes I have. A friend made the misjudgement of keeping two siamese once , housebound in their high rise flat. The cats were always trying to escape and after a very narrow escape on the balcony the friend made the wise decision to rehome her cats to a third party with access to a garden.

At best you are seriously misguided in your beliefs. The onus in law thank god is for people to behave in a humane way towards cats.Your words would seem to be efforts to justify such evil actions by saying its the owners fault and if such I find that appalling. I invite you to clarify your meaning.

As you can clearly see cjb02 you are wrong yet again, I have very clearly responded to your query but why let facts get in the way of your arguement ehh?

The fact that you rewrite and misrepresent my views lends no credibility to your arguement!

The fact that you refuse to condemn those who offer violence towards these cherised animals will repulse the vast majority of responsible cat owners whether they keep house cats or not. This truelly underlines your false front as being concerned with animal welfare.

Your pets have free run of the house when no one is in but no way to get out. What if there was a fire ?

You allow that you have changed your mind once on this issue but still maintain that there is only black or white. Well I suppose you could be the equivalent of a born again housecat keeper.

I am posting here the guidlines from that well respected welfare organisation the RSPCA

What do cats need?


Companionship - to be with other cats or people for at least part of the day.
A balanced diet - make sure there are no bones in your cat's food.
A constant supply of fresh, clean water.
A garden or safe place to play and exercise every day, away from busy roads.
Somewhere warm and cosy to sleep.
To be brushed regularly, particularly when shedding their coats. Long-haired cats need to be brushed every day.
A scratching post.
Help to clean their teeth. You can brush or rub their teeth with special toothpaste. They also need to have their teeth checked regularly by the vet.
To come and go as they please - a cat flap is ideal.
To be trained to use a litter tray.
To be microchipped in case they get lost.
Cat neutering should be carried out as early as possible in order to avoid unwanted litters. Most cats are sexually mature at six months, but some cats can become pregnant as early as five months. Therefore, the ideal age to neuter your cat is between four and five months.
To be taken to a vet if they are ill or injured.
Injections to prevent certain serious diseases.
Worming and regular flea treatments.
To be looked after when you are away on holiday.

I highlight in red the points that might interest you.

I will not be responding to any of your points, as this is clearly frustrating other board users of this gardening board.

I still strongly disagree with you.  I will not be posting any further comments on this subject.

[Hyacinth]

Olicat, you still there ???.....

Here's what's worked for me for some years now when I've seeded my veggie plots in my garden, given that I can't stop cats entering the garden and they're so attracted to the soil there:-

I buy from the Pound shops packs of something sold as 'Lawn Edge' - plastic coated sections of arched wire - comes in white or green. Each pack will give a run of 1.8metres of edging. Much loved as lawn edging by elderly ladies who also have a penchant for wishing wells,  garden gnomes and wild-eyed meercats who bob about on coiled springs? Take a walk round your estate and you'll see the stuff I mean.

When I sow drills (or blocks) I line these with the edging and criss-cross with lengths of sticks, etc. They stay in place until the seedlings are well through and making their growth, so I usually hope to (thankfully) remove them about August, for a line of chard, for example. And I find the more unobtrusive green stuff invaluable to give support to more floppy-over plants, too.

Kind regards and I hope that you find that this will work for you too.

Lishka

[asbean]

Good to see you back, Hyacinth, we've missed you xx

[carbonel11]

Keeping the soil moist would work, cats prefer digging in dry soil. Another suggestion I have heard of is to put dried cat food where they are going on the basis that cats don't crap where they are eating. Think myself this might attract slugs.

[flossy]

   Can carbonel11 and cjb 02,  Please !

    --- get a room !              ::)

[carbonel11]

   Can carbonel11 and cjb 02,  Please !

    --- get a room !              ::)

Aaaaahh but where would the cat go ?

[flossy]

   Don't be silly !    ;D

    Got nothing to do with ' cats '  --   more to do with one-up-manship ?    ::)

[carbonel11]

   Don't be silly !    ;D

    Got nothing to do with ' cats '  --   more to do with one-up-manship ?    ::)

As someone pointed out you're never far away when there's an argument yourself are you Flossy ? ;D

Enjoy picking over the bones ? ;D

I noticed you tried to resurrect the thread "  fuming " without much success?

Have fun  ;D

[telboy]

Olicat for your endeavours & dear Hyacinth,
Shall we annihilate them now or later dear hearts?
 :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\

[flossy]

      ::)    ::)    ???   ???   :D   :D  X

[flossy]

   Well carbonel11   -  I do have fun !     ;D

   All the people on this site are lovely,   will say  - in referance to your last post, that

   congratulations are due to the time and labour it must have taken you to ' trawl '

   through my last posts  ---   for a 2 star General, you are doing rather well !    ::)

   No I didn't want to  'resurrect ' a topic that had been worn out anyway !

   Perhaps you didn't ' trawl ' my posts intensely enough ?    It was purely a social view

   of schooling from at least 60 yrs ago,  as no one responded I gracefully withdrew.

   Does this give you an indication of what A4A is all about ?      I try to put in some useful

  input and gladly receive the help and advice that is given freely from these members here.

  floss xxx

 

[woodybrown]

Hope georgie don't see that post Tony..........boy are you in trouble ;D

OR BUSTER54

[olicat]

Yes Telboy...still here...this subject has gone bananas!!!

[Rhubarb Thrasher]

this post  is going to go on until someone starts hitting the keys at random and we get the complete works of Shakespeare