Topic: Aminopyralid manure test - photos of the result

[hellohelenhere]

Many thanks to 1066 for explaining how to test the manure I was given - it turns out to be contaminated! I've put up a couple of pics, it's easy to see which 3 broad bean plants are the ones planted in the manure mix.

http://hellohelenheresnotes.blogspot.com/2009/04/bean-test.html

Thank goodness I didn't put that stuff on my vegetable beds!

[1066]

Helen, thats a mixture of good news and bad news isn't it? Chuffed that I did bother to put that post up now, cos it's saved you a heap (no pun intended) of trouble, but obviously disappointing in that you don't have any lovely manure for your garden. And those pictures really do show the difference. Fortunately my manure turned out to be ok (did the same test)
best of luck
1066

[saddad]

It doesn't affect everything... some are immune, not sure which but I think Sweetcorn is OK being a grass... someone who knows will tell you for sure...  :-X

[hellohelenhere]

I'm not too worried about the loss of the manure, though it's a tad annoying - just very relieved not to have poisoned my garden with it, and a little bit horrified, as I really thought the test would be a formality and that it wouldn't be contaminated! :S

[hellohelenhere]

It's funny how to begin with, the plants looked the same - I suppose they don't get affected until they have absorbed a certain amount of toxin. They were about 8" tall before I could see the difference. I know the plants are gangly - ideally, I would have planted them out a few weeks ago, but of course was waiting to see the result! Should have used larger pots... but I think they (the non-toxic 3) will be alright, with a bit of support.

[Hector]

Helen
really pleased you havent put this on your garden. Thanks for sharing this info too.

[Eristic]

I originally recommended using the broad bean or pea for testing as it is cheap, grows quickly even in the winter and is highly susceptible to the poison making it an ideal indicator plant. Thanks for not giving me the credit for my work.

Incidentally, while we are on the subject I would like to put to bed the idiotic notion that the poison biodegrades within a few weeks once the manure is mixed into the soil. I can now confirm that when geological conditions prevent runoff, the ground remains toxic to sensitive plants for 16 months and rising.

My study is ongoing.

[tonybloke]

I originally recommended using the broad bean or pea for testing as it is cheap, grows quickly even in the winter and is highly susceptible to the poison making it an ideal indicator plant. Thanks for not giving me the credit for my work.

didn't you suggest this test last year, Eristic? ;)

[Eristic]

I think the important thing is that it works and prevents ongoing damage to the plot.

[hellohelenhere]

Pardon me, Eristic, but I didn't know where the idea originated, only who suggested it to me! I wasn't even a member of this site a year ago...  ???

[hellohelenhere]

Anyway, thanks Eristic, for concocting the test - it certainly works.
The lady who gave me the manure rang me this evening after getting my email about it - she was horrified, she had no idea, and hadn't even heard of aminopyralids. It seems that it's known about only in gardening circles, and that horse-owners aren't in the loop. Farmers and gardeners may be up to speed by this stage, but it seems that at least one link in the chain is still not aware of the problem...

[Eristic]

The main thing is that gardeners get the message that they are on their own and it is their responsibility to test all manure. It is no use asking the manure supplier because even if they know it is contaminated they will lie to you. No one in their right mind is going to say "Please take my toxic rubbish away without charge and dump it illegally for me."

All horse owners are aware of the problem and have been for a long time but so long as the manure pile does not become too large they care not.

The farmers are well aware of the problem and they care even less. They will sell their product regardless and will not devalue it by declaring that it is contaminated.

[hellohelenhere]

I don't think this lady was lying, she seemed quite upset about it. She obviously tries to avoid chemicals as much as she can - she was telling me that she worms her horses once a year and treats them twice with an anti-louse treatment but other than that, tried to avoid any kind of toxins at all.

[asbean]

But they also eat hay - does she grow her own organically as well? or does she get that from a supplier (who probably doesn't know its origins).

[hellohelenhere]

She was trying to figure out where it came from, but of course she has various suppliers, some of which she thinks are 'more organic' than others. But there's one wild card because someone else looked after her horses for a while, last Easter, and obtained some feed from yet another supplier.

[asbean]

So it just proves that Eristic's test is the safest route to go.

Until last year we were OK because we knew that what we were digging was there six years ago (lovely stuff - black gold), but the newer stuff has been piled all around it, and we can't be 100% sure of its age, so will be testing from this year.  I never see our "pile owner", so can't ask her, and in any case it's in her interests to get rid of it, so wouldn't or couldn't say yay or nay.

[oliveoyl_25]

Can you test fresh manure using this method?  I've been getting a bag from here, a bag from there etc. and obviously don't want to just lob it all in one pile to rot down if any of it's contaminated, and I haven't really got the space to have lots of piles dotted around (haven't got a full sized plot).

[Eristic]

Simple answer: Yes.

Grow test indicator plants in small pots and put some manure in the water. You would need to keep each water/manure  batch together with its indicator plant.

 found (by accident) that a small amount of contaminated manure in the bowl used to bottom water plants was sufficient to make tomato plants sick so should do the same to beans or peas.

Assuming that aminopyralid remains off the market we are still stuck with this problem for at least the next 3-5 years so testing must now be a routine part of a gardeners routine.

If it persists in the soil for in excess of 16 months, God only knows how long it will remain locked up in a manure pile at the stables. Also, if the farmer does not spray this year it frees him of any liability but his crop could still contain a lethal level of contamination picked up from the soil. (Lethal to plants that is.)

You have to test. Trust no one.

[chriscross1966]

Can you test fresh manure using this method?  I've been getting a bag from here, a bag from there etc. and obviously don't want to just lob it all in one pile to rot down if any of it's contaminated, and I haven't really got the space to have lots of piles dotted around (haven't got a full sized plot).

With horse you should be OK as long as you use a fairly robust plant  anyway, it's what makes Eristic's technique good from the point of view of the biology (oo.... dusting off my BSc after all these years in electronics...hurrah!). Once a broad bean has "hatched" you could plant it in straigh horse poo and it would probably grow OK....in cow or pig you would have a bit more trouble because there isn't anythign much that will grown in fresh pig muck..... I'll be doing the test on some I'm hoping to pick up soon, but at least I have the space to dig it in to a piece of ground that drains fairly well and that I could live without using this year..... then next year I'll grow sweetcorn on it having tested the soil occasionally through the year.....

chrisc

[oliveoyl_25]

Thanks very much... fingers crossed then!

More questions if you can help.

How common is it?

How much from a batch of manure would you test - a scoop from each bag?