Author Topic: Stolen Manure (Read 23269 times)

powerspade · « **Reply #80 on:** May 13, 2009, 05:59:23 »

On our site anyone caught stealing is given instant termination - they are off.
If anyone wants stuff that I have all they got to do is ask - to parphrase the good book "Ask and it shall be given unto you, seek and you shall find, steal and I`ll come down on you like a ton of bricks"

boltonlad · « **Reply #81 on:** May 13, 2009, 08:23:47 »

I liked the idea of weedkiller in the water butt myself

thifasmom · « **Reply #82 on:** May 13, 2009, 08:53:29 »

Quote from: powerspade on May 13, 2009, 05:59:23

On our site anyone caught stealing is given instant termination - they are off.
If anyone wants stuff that I have all they got to do is ask - to parphrase the good book "Ask and it shall be given unto you, seek and you shall find, steal and I`ll come down on you like a ton of bricks"

;D some how and can't recall reading any verses quite like ;D

sawfish · « **Reply #83 on:** May 13, 2009, 10:20:37 »

Quote from: boltonlad on May 13, 2009, 08:23:47

I liked the idea of weedkiller in the water butt myself

Dont know about that, sometimes I wash my hands etc in the water butt. Death or cancer seems like excessive revenge.

Kea · « **Reply #84 on:** May 13, 2009, 15:06:54 »

Quote from: grannyjanny on May 12, 2009, 20:16:32

Kea I'm not 100% sure but I think if you want someone to respond in a given time you need to put "time is of the essence" in the letter.
Janet

I didn't make any contract with them in the first place and quite frankly it is over a months since they helped themselves so I have already given them time to sort it out.

I wouldn't do anything in revenge (bar scaring her into moving 4 tonne of topsoil quickly!) anything you do can be done back to you. However one of the other plot holders who told me what they had done before he noticed, by which time they'd taken the lot, has had a mysterious break in http://www.allotments4all.co.uk/smf/index.php/topic,51482.msg522270.html#msg522270.
We wondered if that was revenge for informing!

Kea · « **Reply #85 on:** May 22, 2009, 17:52:40 »

The continuing saga.......

Today I found a reply tied to my fence. A 2 page letter in which the plotholder who took my manure was very patronising and unapologetic!

He claimed he was not aware that manure could be 'bagsyed' by covering it up with carpet.......implies it just landed there and i covered it up with carpet or in my case a piece of (specially bought) weed suppressant fabric. When actually i barrowed it there!

He then went on to tell me i was guilty of bullying and harassing him (with two very polite letters?)and his partner. He quoted the Theft (amendment) 1996 Act to me claiming it wasn't theft as he wasn't aware it was anyone's property! The accused me of slander because I mentioned in my second letter that people had already started to refer to them as the 'people who took my manure'. That was everyone told me when I came back from holiday not what I said!!! i did say that doesn't go down well with other plotholders...and it doesn't.

I have also been told that my tying the letter to his gate is trespass and harassment and warned that in future this will constitute trespass and harassment and that i can reply to his letter if i wish by attaching a letter to the plot notice board.....very tempting but not in an envelope open for all to see!

He also claimed the replacement manure was better than the stuff they took as it was very well rotted being at least 20 yesrs old!!!!! Well past it's best then and of very little value nutritionally.

Not much else i can do, our association chairman and his wife came along just after i received this letter and read it and were stunned by it's tone and content but this guy is not a member of the association....yet!

SMP1704 · « **Reply #86 on:** May 22, 2009, 18:02:02 »

Kea, I would be inclined to have the Sgt of your local Community Policing team take at look at his letter - let him/her decide if theft trumps trespass and 'harassment'.

If you place your letters on outside of their fence from the community paths, it is not trespass and in any case that is a civil matter.

I really can't bear bullies.

saddad · « **Reply #87 on:** May 22, 2009, 18:06:12 »

Quote

Not much else i can do, our association chairman and his wife came along just after i received this letter and read it and were stunned by it's tone and content but this guy is not a member of the association....yet!

and if your committee have anything about them he won't pass his probationary period...
Theft is grounds for immediate expulsion... >:(

Robert_Brenchley · « **Reply #88 on:** May 22, 2009, 18:09:16 »

They shouldn't be accepted in the Association after that, no matter whether that affects their tenancy or not!

Kea · « **Reply #89 on:** May 22, 2009, 18:15:09 »

Our committee doesn't have any powers it's more a mutual benefit association and membership is voluntary/optional. i have however kept the Town Clerk informed of the situation.

Yes the letter reminds me of the sort of letter I get from my ex husband who ironically shares a forename with this guy!

Bullies always think of calling their victim bullies to excuse themselves. I was told by his neighbouring plotholder that he was 'pugnacious' now I see what she means.

asbean · « **Reply #90 on:** May 22, 2009, 19:00:13 »

Quote from: Kea on May 22, 2009, 17:52:40

He quoted the Theft (amendment) 1996 Act to me claiming it wasn't theft as he wasn't aware it was anyone's property!

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1996/Ukpga_19960062_en_1

Where does it say that then ???

SMP1704 · « **Reply #91 on:** May 22, 2009, 20:07:18 »

...and in any case, ignorance is no defence >:( >:(

Hector · « **Reply #92 on:** May 22, 2009, 20:15:16 »

Kea, that letter is farsical. Agree with showing to your community officer. As for bullying, I unfortunately have to be aware of the policies/definitions of this at work....the "gentleman" is deluded and if anything is projecting his behaviour.

redimp · « **Reply #93 on:** May 22, 2009, 21:49:41 »

He quoted the wrong act - that one is an amendment which adds new offences. The defintion of theft according to the correct 1968 Act is:

Quote

A person is guilty of theft if he dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it;

An accused has to have the dishonest intention. If the accused thinks that s/he has the right to something, then no theft has been committed. The wrong will then be a civil one.

In this case, ignorance is a defence.

In fact, the 'ignorance' is not a defence only means that you cannot dishonestly appropriate another person's property etc and then claim you did not know that 'theft' was against the law. If you commit and offence, the fact that you did not know it was an offence is not a defence. If you did not commit an offence, as this person claims, then knowledge of the law is irrelevant.

As an aside, there is a reasonableness test. A person cannot claim to have thoguht that property did not belong to another if a reasonable person would have known it did. If they then take it without consent, they are acting dishonestly.

Ishard · « **Reply #94 on:** May 23, 2009, 11:31:44 »

Kea hes bullying you, and Im sure he wouldnt have done this if you had been a man.

Report him to the police for theft, show the police the letters you wrote trying to sort it out and tell them that you are afraid of him. Ask your friendly plot holders who saw your manure to say how big the pile was etc and the ask the guy who saw them removing your manure to write somethig for you.

You have tried to be 'nice' to these people nows the time to get tough.

PS I feel like bringing my huge six foot husband and sons plus a few friends to stand at your side while you reclaim your manure and to warn these people not to come near you or your plot again.

I HATE BULLIES!!!

mickb · « **Reply #95 on:** May 23, 2009, 12:50:01 »

I blame Fearnley Whittingthingumy, he has done so much for repopularising the allotment but has failed to impress the code of values and expectations of conduct.

Why do all allotments not make a booklet available to all newbies which introduces such things as a "potted" history of the site, rules, guidelines etc. That way the process of marking your propoerty, marking your manure heap, water butt etc is as clearly explained as the process of not taking anothers preperty. It may be a downloadable resource from some website which needs very little editing to suit your site.

Whilst on the topic, do all allotments not have a committe, or a warden whose decision is final in neighbour disputes.

I also agree that retaliation by destroying someone's plants, may be the food for their children's table, is totally abhorrent and if they wish to behave like that then they should get elected to parliament.

Borlotti · « **Reply #96 on:** May 23, 2009, 13:07:54 »

May be, just may be it was a genuine mistake, and the situation is just getting out of hand. A load of pallets were left next to the communal manure, that anyone can take, and the pallets all disappeared. Apparently they weren't for communal use as someone can arranged for a lorry to drop them off. I think it is silly to let the argument esculate, I know it is annoying, but perhaps let it drop and hopefully you will all become friends.

Digeroo · « **Reply #97 on:** May 23, 2009, 13:32:11 »

Surely if it was a genuine mistake, then the person making the mistake should apologise.

What a great shame. One of the nice things for me about allotmenting is how nice everyone is. Everyone is helpful and there is a super community spirit.

When I said I was going on holiday I got loads of volunteers to water.

An incident like this spoils the whole atmosphere.

I agree with the others who say forget it. It is clearly upsetting you. Do not spoil your relationship with others on the site. Go back to enjoying your allotment.

Kea · « **Reply #98 on:** May 23, 2009, 14:30:50 »

Thanks for your support.

Asbean thanks for looking up that Act...it is amusing that he got it wrong...that cheers me up so much on it's own.

Well it probably was a genuine mistake but their response to me was just rude and made the whole thing worse. If you 'sneer' at someone when you say sorry it just doesn't sound sincere...it was like being back it school and sounded like she was going to follow it with something 'nah nah nah followed by her poking out her tongue' it was the attitude that really annoyed me.

I've told the Town Clerk what's been going on. What is really funny is this guy quoting back to me the contract I helped write!!!!

I'll go and have an informal chat to a community police officer in case they decide to get nasty because of course people on site are pointing them out (even before I knew my heap was stolen while I was still on holiday) as the people who took my manure heap but of course it will be me that he blames!

kingston boy · « **Reply #99 on:** May 23, 2009, 19:30:36 »

[quote author=
Whilst on the topic, do all allotments not have a committe, or a warden whose decision is final in neighbour disputes.

I belong to a site that does not have an association or controlled by a warden. It works well without such a thing. We have a person that deals with the showing the plots and then advising our owners in this case a private company, They did try to form an association but no one really wanted it. Most disputes are settled amicably between the parties involved. A much more adult way to do things.We do swaps and have Bar B Q's and drink tea (mostly) at each others plot. Share info etc so no advantage can be seen by having some person or persons telling us what to do. It works well here tho its not to say that other sites may need help and advice.

[/quote]

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Author Topic: Stolen Manure (Read 23269 times)