Topic: OK. where's all this Global Warming gone ?

[les65]

 When i watched Victorin Farming last week it was mentioned on there that they had had a spell of wet summers one after the other.....got me thinking what have our last two summers been like,  Swings and roundabouts me thinks.

#

Sorry but I'm confused. Are you saying that wet summers indicate global warming is not happening?

the only summer i cannot remember being wet was 1974, why are you going to tell us that its because of global warming,

what about all the methane gas from (insert the latest) cows sheep monkeys etc etc

[Kea]

Yes I am, global warming increases precipitation in temperate regions. Global warming was well under way before 1974. When you make changes to a system that is in equilibrium it causes fluctuations until it reaches a new equilibrium. Human's have been making changes and affecting their environment since the start of the industrial revolution, more and more every year and we are gradually starting to see the effect. My lecturer's all said 'when the permafrost starts to melt we will know we are in big trouble'. Well guess what!

Even worse will be the release of methane stored in the peat which could cause a feed back response. 

[Robert_Brenchley]

Acid rain has been around since the Industrial Revolution, but it became an issue because acid from our coal-fired power stations was killing forests and fish wholesale in Scandinavia. With the demise of our coal industry it ceased to be a problem here. it still is a problem in other parts of the world, such as India and China, but for political reasons they're not making an issue of it. No doubt the day will come.

[RSJK]

 Kea+les65

   I am trying to say that weather comes round in circles, we have had 2 wet summers the last 2 years..........

  It was said on Victorian Farm that they had a spell of wet summers,, I did not hear anything about Global warming then being blamed for the weather.

 I agree with most of the replies on here

 these scares keep people in well paid jobs and the Government a excuse to tax us more.

[coznbob]

If I was being pedantic.... ::)

Acid rain has been around a lot longer, volcanic eruptions spew out a lot of harmful gases contributing to acid rain... The Industrial revolution has made the problem worse

The rise in sea level IS caused by the glaciers etc melting, the melt water in the oceans undergoes thermal expansion, so the warmer it gets, the more it expands, causing the rise. Not to mention all the temp. changes and salinity issues already so eloquently explained.

Fluctuations in sea levels and temperatures have always occurred, the time scale of these changes is the cause for concern. Ice core studies have shown that the speed in which they are occurring at present is unusual to say the least...

To all those that aren't quite to so to date with their info. Research it, its fascinating ;D

[Kea]

Fluctuations in sea levels and temperatures have always occurred, the time scale of these changes is the cause for concern. Ice core studies have shown that the speed in which they are occurring at present is unusual to say the least...

Precisely.....that's where the non believer's are missing the point.....it's the speed of the change that is important past changes have occurred over thousands of years and even then species have been wiped out because they didn't keep up with the changes. We are seeing these changes over a very short time period.

[Robert_Brenchley]

Problem is, not many people are in a position to judge between 'authorities', and we've been deluged with half-truths, lies, damned lies and propaganda by people who knew exactly what they were doing.

[littlebabybird]

Well put Triffid!
Apparentley the atlantic conveyor actually stopped for a couple of days last year!  :o :o
The last time we had reliable distinct seasons was in the 70's. trouble is, the planet don't follow the calendar as strictly as we do!! ;)

tony, where can i read about this?
lbb

[tonybloke]

Marcus Brigstock did a sketch about this a while back, after spending time on a research vessel.(radio 4, the only beeb worth listening to?) ;D ;D

[cheese49]

But surely Tony as you're from Norfolk the rising sea levels won't affect you much.

You'll be able so swim away quicker than most due to your webbed feet. ;D

[Ninnyscrops.]

Harsh cheese49  ;D

[redimp]

Right - I have kept up with this thread with interest but have refused to comment up till now.

perhaps I should write
over her so most of you can
read it

Cimate change is happening and this winter may (I will not say is) be an indicator of it.  We are on the same latitude as Canada's border with Alaska, Siberia and Northern Europe.  So by rights, our weather should be like this all winter long.  It is not because of the gulf stream that washes our sceptred isle with warm weather from the Caribbean and Central America.  This is why we are warmer and why birds from areas that share our latitude over winter here.  Climate change will knock out this effect, maybe not yet, but it will.  We will get winters like this all winter long every year - this will please the car drivers because it will then be worth investing the millions in better winter protection for the roads rather than every 18 years as now.  This does not mean that overall, polar ice caps and glaciers are not melting, they are despite there being local anomalies.  It does not mean there will not be increased desertification of the land masses that remain - there will be because where rainfall is low, it will get lower.  Cimate change deniers are worse than holocaust deniers because it will kill more people and they are blind through choice because they want to keep their cushy resource rich lifestyles that will ultimately result in the deaths of 10's if not 100's of millions of people who do not have that choice.

[les65]

to compare someone cynical of global warming (climate change) with holocaust deniers is an absurd statement, there has been irrefutable evidence of the crime done.
there is no irrefutable evidence of global warming (climate change) even the name has been change to be as vauge as possible.
IF the risk is repairable why do the goverments continue to do nothing, think of how much damage must be done every time a spaceship goes through our atmosphere not to mention the pollution.
all the planes taking people on their holidays spewing out toxic waste.
just 2 examples, but two of the worse.

IF the risk is not repairable why are we even bothering, we are already doomed.

the human race have only been on this planet a short space of time we cannot guess what is happening we do not have the benefit of data for the complete lifecycle of the earth to compare.

i have been on  http://www.energysavingtrust.org.uk/Your-impact-on-climate-change/How-we-contribute-to-climate-change/What-is-a-carbon-footprint.

my carbon footprint is 1.6 tonnes (family of 6) and im trying to reduce that. i would like to suggest others try it (answer honestly)
i do not consider myself to have a cushy resource rich lifestyle, i am thrifty, i recycle, i grow my own where possible, i have never jetted off on holiday.
but i still feel its just scaremongery whipped up by the media, and pounced on by the present goverment as another way to tax us under the pretense of enviromental care.
apart from talking i dont know of anything meaningful the (uk)goverment has done.
the americans have done nothing (as yet).
we get some snow and its the worse in 18 years, well not where im living, about 10 years ago it was twice as thick and stayed for about 2 weeks.
we get some rain and it floods and its because of climate change, nothing to do with building on flood plains, or building by the side of a river, or not cleaning out the ditches.

[amphibian]

to compare someone cynical of global warming (climate change) with holocaust deniers is an absurd statement, there has been irrefutable evidence of the crime done.
there is no irrefutable evidence of global warming (climate change) even the name has been change to be as vauge as possible.

RC comparison is one I cannot support but it is not one RC invented, it ws first used gainst scientists that have opposed CC, and it is a disgraceful and dangerous thing to apply to scientists, right or wrong, that are providing evidence for or against something.

IF the risk is repairable why do the goverments continue to do nothing, think of how much damage must be done every time a spaceship goes through our atmosphere not to mention the pollution.
all the planes taking people on their holidays spewing out toxic waste.
just 2 examples, but two of the worse.

Why have they done nothing, because people don't want them to do anything, people oppose governments that want to impose reductions in their luxury modern life, or demand harder work of them, governments do nothing, because the people want to bury their heads in the sand, centre their lives around trips to Bluewater and holidays in the Med.

Governments are corrupt and power hungry, to get the power they crave they have to have the support of the people, they will do many many things not in the interest of anyone to maintain that power, including inaction.
IF the risk is not repairable why are we even bothering, we are already doomed.

the human race have only been on this planet a short space of time we cannot guess what is happening we do not have the benefit of data for the complete lifecycle of the earth to compare.

True. But even if CC is not true, anyone can see that our modern way of life is entirely unsustainable and destructive anyway, changing it is essential either which way, so why get caught up in the whole CC debate, just get on with living a better and healthier life for you, your family and for nature.

i have been on  http://www.energysavingtrust.org.uk/Your-impact-on-climate-change/How-we-contribute-to-climate-change/What-is-a-carbon-footprint.

my carbon footprint is 1.6 tonnes (family of 6) and im trying to reduce that. i would like to suggest others try it (answer honestly)
i do not consider myself to have a cushy resource rich lifestyle, i am thrifty, i recycle, i grow my own where possible, i have never jetted off on holiday.
but i still feel its just scaremongery whipped up by the media, and pounced on by the present goverment as another way to tax us under the pretense of enviromental care.
apart from talking i dont know of anything meaningful the (uk)goverment has done.
the americans have done nothing (as yet).
we get some snow and its the worse in 18 years, well not where im living, about 10 years ago it was twice as thick and stayed for about 2 weeks.
we get some rain and it floods and its because of climate change, nothing to do with building on flood plains, or building by the side of a river, or not cleaning out the ditches.

Sure  alot of nonsense is spoken, by the media, about every weather event, but often this obvious fact is used as evidence that CC is a bunch of nonsense too, it doesn't follow, truth is we just don't know, but that there is some significant evidence to support CC.

I was a firm sceptic until I did some extensive research of my own, I am still far from convinced, but have seen enough to know we should change our ways, because we have bad anyways and because the risk is so huge.

[amphibian]

i have been on  http://www.energysavingtrust.org.uk/Your-impact-on-climate-change/How-we-contribute-to-climate-change/What-is-a-carbon-footprint.

I just ran that, I don't drive, don't heat my house, don't take flights, all my appliances are A rated, everything is off at the wall... my family of 3 comes out at 2.2 tonnes CO2/year, how on earth does a family of 6 come out at to 1.6?

There aren't enough options on there, it takes no account of food miles or the like.

All of the suggestions of things I do to reduce my footprint further where either things I already do or were not relevant to the answers I had given it. Such as I told it my house was heated by gas, and that I used no gas, yet it suggested I reduce my thermostat by 10%, which would do nowt.

[OllieC]

I don't need to go on some website to calculate my carbon footprint - I know what I do that's bad and try to minimise it where I feel I have a choice.

Red's comparison is perfectly reasonable when you think about it. It even works if you take it a bit further - some people are still cashing in on an atrocity that happened 60 years ago, the same as some people are clearly cashing in on climate change. But that doesn't make the underlying cause worthless.

I come from a family of scientists and am reasonably scientific in my approach to life. I know many physicists having been to uni with them, and also know a number of biologists. I have never met a single scientist who thinks climate change is a myth. Scientist should look at the data, construct models, test the model against the observed data, and draw conclusions. Whichever way this is done leads to an overwhelmingly convincing conclusion that this is man made climate change.

If you approach the facts with an agenda, you can interpret them however you want. If you're objective & rational, you shouldn't be including what you want the truth to be. 

A scientist who states that climate change isn't happening is an embarrassment to the scientific community due to his or her lack of objectivity, in the same way that a holocaust denying bishop is an embarrassment to the Catholic church due to his lack of compassion.

[tonybloke]

But surely Tony as you're from Norfolk the rising sea levels won't affect you much.

You'll be able so swim away quicker than most due to your webbed feet. ;D

I live in gorleston - on sea, 13.5 metres above sea level .
Also, Born  in Newmarket, and raised in Cambridgeshire so don't have webbed feet!!! ;)  ;D ;D ;D

[tonybloke]

Tried to do that carbon - footprint sketch. where's the option for a wood burner, fuelled from re cycled (skip) wood? our gas boiler is only for hot water, it ain't run the heating once since installed 5 yeare ago! we don't heat our bedrooms (plenty snuggles)  ;D ;D ;D

[Robert_Brenchley]

I think there's a difference between the deliberate slaughter of hiuman beings - I don't care whether it's the Nazis, Rwanda, Armenia, or where it is, it's all the same - and killing people as a by-product of gross greed. But yes, the climate change deniers are setting us up for something that could easily wipe out our global civilisation. Scientifically, it is irrefutable. The evidence is there, but it's rather more technical than the evidence for the holocausts.

[les65]

31,000 American scientists "an embarrassment to the scientific community"
 http://www.oism.org/pproject/

2 more embarrassment to the scientific community
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2005/aug/19/climatechange.climatechangeenvironment

A letter signed by over 50 leading members of the American Meteorological Society warned about the policies promoted by environmental pressure groups. "The policy initiatives derive from highly uncertain scientific theories. They are based on the unsupported assumption that catastrophic global warming follows from the burning of fossil fuel and requires immediate action
http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/extract/316/7138/1164

The Pope condemns the climate change prophets of doom
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-501316/The-Pope-condemns-climate-change-prophets-doom.html

calling scientists an embarrassment to the scientific community just because they disagree with your point of view is a bit harsh, they would interpret data with a different outcome but i would expect them to make an intellegent conclusion based on the evidence given them,as would the scientists who come to an opposing conclusion.

the simple fact of the matter is, for every imminent disaster warning there is an opposing (and just as convincing) argument against.