Author Topic: Tenancy agreement (Read 6103 times)

caroline7758 · « **on:** January 07, 2009, 17:43:08 »

Got a new tenancy agreement from the council for my allotment today. Rent has gone up to £20, only a small rise, but they have added lots more clauses to the agreement, all beginning "the tenant shall..../shall not..." but not a single one saying "the council shall..."
I was just wondering whether councils have a duty to do anything at all regarding allotment maintenance- I don't suppose so. All they did before was cut the hedges when we reminded them, now there's a rule saying we have to do that too.

Fork · « **Reply #1 on:** January 07, 2009, 18:11:22 »

We pay £20 too but thats to pay for water and other bits and pieces like petrol for the lawnmower etc etc.

We only pay a "Peppercorn" rent to the Council and for that reason we maintain our own hedges and grass.

We did pay them much more at one point and they cut the grass and hedges....but once in a blue moon!

BAK · « **Reply #2 on:** January 07, 2009, 19:27:20 »

Caroline,

allotment law does not really cover site maintenance.

It is up to you and your fellow plot holders to negotiate a good deal with your council.

From the council's perspective they will not (unless you are lucky) want to lose (more) money on allotments and hence it is not surprising that they will want to push more responsibilities your way as their costs increase. Their alternative may be to increase your rents even more.

But the bottom line is to talk to the council (if you have nor done so already) and see what you can negotiate ... nothing ventured nothing gained.

caroline7758 · « **Reply #3 on:** January 07, 2009, 19:54:12 »

They have no costs- there is nothing provided except the land- no water, no fencing, nothing! I'm not complaining really, just seems petty to make so many rules just to cover themselves.
How about this one- we were never allowed to keep any poultry, pigeons or livestock- now they've added bees!

sazhig · « **Reply #4 on:** January 08, 2009, 22:57:59 »

I can understand the livestock as some sites can have problems with rats etc....but bees ???. What possible problems can they cause?.....especially when various ecological bods are on about how few bees there are now...I would personally ask why they've suddenly decided to make this change.

ceres · « **Reply #5 on:** January 08, 2009, 23:35:23 »

The mere fact of a Council providing allotments costs money. They may lease the land. They have to employ someone to let the plots, collect the rents, deal with enquiries, complaints, disputes etc. Many Councils seem to be encouraging/forcing sites down the route of self-management because it costs them less. Your new tenancy agreement seems to be a move in that direction. I'm guessing that it's the same with the livestock/bees issue. If they allowed them, it would be more cost.

caroline7758 · « **Reply #6 on:** January 09, 2009, 12:57:05 »

Well, went to pay today and it turns out they will still cut the outer boundary hedges. I asked about the bees and apparently someone had asked if they could have bees and after discussion (not sure with whom) they decided not- they didn't think neighbours would be happy!

Trevor_D · « **Reply #7 on:** January 09, 2009, 13:20:50 »

A lot of you on Council sites seem very lucky. We're on a private site and the land is owned by the local Church charity. They are very nice people, and very supportive of the idea of the site continuing, but their brief is - obviously - to raise revenue for the charity, so our rent is quite a large proportion of our expenditure. In return, we do all the site maintainance, including cutting the hedge, and pay for any capital expenditure - from buildings & equipment to stamps & petrol - and the Committee runs the site.

But there are advantages to this: we make our own decisions, to suit ourselves, and get things done when we want/need them done. (We don't have to wait till the Borough Parks Department has a free slot in their mowing programme, for example - if the grass needs cutting, someone gets the mower out and does it!)

If the Council wants you to go self-managed, see what sort of deal they're prepared to offer! In my opinion, the advantages outweigh the problems.

sazhig · « **Reply #8 on:** January 09, 2009, 21:50:59 »

Quote from: caroline7758 on January 09, 2009, 12:57:05

I asked about the bees and apparently someone had asked if they could have bees and after discussion (not sure with whom) they decided not- they didn't think neighbours would be happy!

What on earth could their neighbours have to complain about ???...or do none of them want crops on their fruit trees ::)

Robert_Brenchley · « **Reply #9 on:** January 11, 2009, 15:47:02 »

Quote from: caroline7758 on January 09, 2009, 12:57:05

Well, went to pay today and it turns out they will still cut the outer boundary hedges. I asked about the bees and apparently someone had asked if they could have bees and after discussion (not sure with whom) they decided not- they didn't think neighbours would be happy!

You may well find that nobody was putting the case infavour of bees. Were the Council aware, for instance, that BBKA membership comes with five million worth of third party insurance? Then there's pollination, I bet they didn't think of that. It could well be negotiable.

caroline7758 · « **Reply #10 on:** January 11, 2009, 16:27:21 »

Quote from: Robert_Brenchley on January 11, 2009, 15:47:02

You may well find that nobody was putting the case infavour of bees. Were the Council aware, for instance, that BBKA membership comes with five million worth of third party insurance? Then there's pollination, I bet they didn't think of that. It could well be negotiable.

Interesting! I don't know who it was who asked, might be someone on another site in the town. If I find out, I'll mention this.

Tin Shed · « **Reply #11 on:** January 11, 2009, 16:52:49 »

One of our site members wanted to have bees, but the council vetoed it - in case they swarmed and someone got stung. Useful to know about the BBKA membership insurance - may be it is worth asking again.

Brown97 · « **Reply #12 on:** January 11, 2009, 17:04:27 »

Go to http://www.britishbee.org.uk/ for more information about what BBKA offer. You may even find they will help and guide you through the negotiations?!?
I would think getting in the pros to help would be of some value.

Nathan

Trevor_D · « **Reply #13 on:** January 11, 2009, 17:18:21 »

As I understand it, all hives have to be registered with the BBKA anyway. (Unlike chickens, where it's only 50 or more.) Therefore they can be/are inspected and presumably insured. It sounds as if someone has taken an off-the-cuff decision somewhere, as it's the quick option.

Our hives - and there are obviously others in the surrounding area - swarm from time to time. No problem.

Robert_Brenchley · « **Reply #14 on:** January 13, 2009, 18:56:45 »

There's no requirement on anyone to join the BBKA or register hives. But I'd always advise people to join the local BKA, and they get membership, and insurance, through that. the Association would be in a stronger position than an individual to lobby for a change in the rules.

kingston boy · « **Reply #15 on:** January 14, 2009, 17:56:49 »

Our rent is £59 full plot,half that for 1/2 plot per yr and theres no maintainance or anything. A full size plot is UP TO 200 sq meters. 10 x 20
50% reduction for the over 60's tho'!!!
Far too much ,but if we want a plot that the fee.

Moonbeam65 · « **Reply #16 on:** January 18, 2009, 19:42:25 »

We pay a total rent of £650 per year for 87 ten pole allotments which we manage ourselves the councils responsibility is supplying us with a skip once a month and repairing the boundary fence.
A couple of sites they manage themselves have an 8x6 shed and greenhouse and all repairs are done by the council as well as supplying the skip the rent for each allotment on these sites are £35 per year.

THE MASTER · « **Reply #17 on:** January 19, 2009, 04:04:35 »

ave cost for a plot on my site is about £60 ish but each plot is about 30x10 metres ish . we are in west london, hilingdon, Ashford ave

i know allot of you have a waiting list . my site at pressent has only 9 ocupants (the start of 2008 it was only 2) ive done loads of work up there the site is gonna be one of the best, all the rubish has been taken away the com hut has been cleared out . the consil have put in new water tanks and we are on for new lavs to be put in aswell

ta boot one of my plot holders has donatted a howard rotorvator and a sit on mower wich my son and i keep in tip top condition . Dean (my son 17 years ) does all the rotorvating for just the price of the fuel . he also does all the grass cutting at his own expence , im not talking about just trimming the paths he gets on the sit on and does all the unused plots

my plot might cost me a few 100+ squid but i can tell you it returns more than i can say

caroline7758 · « **Reply #18 on:** January 19, 2009, 09:13:45 »

I'd be happy to pay a bit more if I got some of the things provided by other councils, as it would save me a lot of time.

Diggerdave · « **Reply #19 on:** January 21, 2009, 22:04:16 »

Reading the comments on Allotment site management, don't some of these Allotment Landowners/Managers have some strange ideas??
Some of us are luckier than others.
Here's my situation (And that of my fellow plot-holders)
Our local Allotment (90 plus plots) is run by the Town Trust, who took over from the Town Council a few years ago. Although they are quite approachable, they have flatly turned down our recent proposals to form an Allotment Association to manage the site.
As they do very little to improve the facilities on the site, we asked if we could extend and improve the water system (there are only four taps and unless you get there at six o'clock in the morning in the warmer weather, you will never be able to water your plot!). Answer NO, we will look into that. They have been asked for years and they are still looking into it!!
We asked whether an association could take responsibility for improving the security, increasing the car parking facilities, improving the layout and access. All we got was NO, NO, No!.
Still they don't do anything, but they will not let a group of enthusiastic members help out. We would be quite happy to mow the grass, trim the hedges etc, in addition to assisting with the general management, which would take a load off their shoulders, but they won't hear of it.
Since the New Year there have been a spate of break-ins and thefts. The Trust 'spokesman' stated in the local press that they would 'In fill the gaps in the hedges with shrubs' - How long will that take and how effective will it be?
There are three gates and only one of those is lockable! Welcome to anyone who wishes to walk through!
So some of us allotmenteers are lucky and others not quite so lucky when it comes to site management.
Still, press on regardless
Keep turning a sod!! Diggerdave

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Author Topic: Tenancy agreement (Read 6103 times)