Topic: Starting no-dig beds

[hellohelenhere]

I'd like to address this question to Star, as an experienced no-digger! I want to try a no-dig bed, starting from scratch with what is presently overgrown tussocky lawn. It doesn't have much in the way of weeds (unless someone is going to tell me with horror that the *whole* lawn is couch grass! - it doesn't look like normal grass so I'm not sure what kind it is.)

Given that it hasn't been cultivated before, do I need to dig it first and *then* keep it as a no-dig?
If no digging required, do I need to at least lift the turf, and either stack it elsewhere to compost - or turn it over in situ so that the grass can compost upside down in the soil)?

Basically, what, if anything, do I need to do to the lawn before I start layering cardboard, paper and compost on top of it? Just want to double check before I start, that I have the right end of the right stick... :-)

Here's a pic to help:

[hellohelenhere]

By the way, since that pic was taken, I've trimmed back about 3/4 of that russian vine on the left, and got rid of the paddling pool. Not much progress - but some!

[Plot69]

Affraid to say it does look like couch to me. But it doesn't look half as bad a my two plots when I got them. I skimmed the turf off of mine and stacked it all geen side down and let it rot for a year.

I use no dig beds on both my plots. If you look at my gallery you can see before and after shots. The problem with no dig beds is there's not a lot of work to do this time of year, it's all done and I get bored sitting in my shed drinking tea, eating bacon sandwiches and just looking at what's not to do :)

[star]

Hiya ;D

If it is couch grass, its not a problem. Cover the area with plastic instead of cardboard. You can plant potatoes and brassicas.......anything with a good rootball basically,........through the plastic. By the end of summer most of the roots will have been deprived of light. Any that you do see when you lift the plastic you can dig out if they are in the way. (There is a nominal amount of digging if you want faster results)

Test the grass first, just dig a little bit up.........Im sure you know what couch roots look like? If it just tussocky grass then strim, leave the strimmings on the ground and cover with cardboard, manure, compost or whatever other rotted material you wish to use.

I did the cardboard method in spring a couple of years ago and planted potatoes the same spring. Fanastic crop ;D!! In fact everything that first year was much more than I expected.

The fact that your ground has been uncultivated is brilliant. That means all the structure and micro-organisms are in a natural state, perfect for growing in. And once your beds are made you dont have to walk on the ground any more.

If there's anything I havent covered, someone else will say, or you can specify what bits you would like more info on.

Good luck Helen, anything for an easier life I say ;D

xx

[hellohelenhere]

Thanks chaps! No chance of me running out of things to do, Plot69! I've got loads of clearing to do at the end of the garden, which is quite overgrown - a thriving nettle patch for example. I want to find some timber to make raised edges for my beds; build some cloches; make a herb bed up near the lean-to; plant up all my bulbs in pots; weed all the paved areas; rebuild the fence that the russian vine has destroyed; make a bird table; put up bird boxes; build shelving for my plants in the lean-to; prune the conifers down by a couple of feet (neighbour permitting); and no doubt, a bunch of other stuff I haven't even thought of yet! :D 

Here's another question; I have some garlic nicely sprouting away in pots. Should I make a conventional dug bed to plant it out in? Or can it go in a freshly made no-dig bed? Do I need to wait for it all to start rotting down, in other words, before I plant stuff in it or can things go in right away?

[shaun01]

is the no dig policy to go with the   

no hedge trimming
no fence painting
no litter picking
no grass cutting
no planting
no tidying

or is it just something you would like to do in between watching the TV lol

only messing  yes it is ,you have a nice garden  ;D    oops

[flossy]

   helen [ if I may use your name ],

   It is a long process from start to fiinish with a garden of any sort  -  and are you ever
   finished ?   ---    no,  because gardens evolve over a period of many years , and thank
   goodness that is what keeps us going !

   Look to each season and respond to what you can grow when and where,  dont expect
   to create your dream in one go  --  look at your achievements at each seasons end and
   look forward to what you will do next year.

   You are creating an environment, for growing, harvesting and well earned satisfaction,
    but it all takes time  ' cos Mum nature dont waite for nobody ',   enjoy what you are
    working for  - but take time for that cuppa-tea and a day dream .

     floss xxx      :D
   

[jordsbabe]

I'd like to address this question to Star, as an experienced no-digger! I want to try a no-dig bed, starting from scratch with what is presently overgrown tussocky lawn. It doesn't have much in the way of weeds (unless someone is going to tell me with horror that the *whole* lawn is couch grass! - it doesn't look like normal grass so I'm not sure what kind it is.)

Given that it hasn't been cultivated before, do I need to dig it first and *then* keep it as a no-dig?
If no digging required, do I need to at least lift the turf, and either stack it elsewhere to compost - or turn it over in situ so that the grass can compost upside down in the soil)?

Basically, what, if anything, do I need to do to the lawn before I start layering cardboard, paper and compost on top of it? Just want to double check before I start, that I have the right end of the right stick... :-)

Here's a pic to help:

I like the sound of a no dig plot where can i find more information?

[Plot69]

I like the sound of a no dig plot where can i find more information?

Type "No dig gardening" into Google. That should bring up a few hundred pages.

[Robert_Brenchley]

You may need to dig, or at least use black plastic to kill the weeds. My approach is to dig where I need to - where I need to lift roots or get rid of perennial weeds - but never dig just because it's conventional.

[hellohelenhere]

Hey Shaun, we've just moved in to this house! So I bear no responsibility for abandoned paddling pools, untrimmed hedges, unpainted fences etc etc! :D

We've had the council take away the paddling pool and the 5 (yes, 5) broken kitchen appliances that were lying around. It's never going to look like an ultra-neat garden with straight edges, cos I don't really do ultra-neat - but it will look *much* better 6 months from now. Honest! :D

[jordsbabe]

Thanks for that, it's not what i thought! it looks like i will have to go for raised beds because of the roots from an old Ash Tree and next door neighbours weeping willow  :-[

[hellohelenhere]

Impressive pics, Plot69! Your 'lazy raised beds' - are they layered (on card/paper/etc) or just soil and compost piled up?

My main dilemma is what to do with stuff that wants planting now, like my garlic. Should I just cover up the grass (or the de-turfed ground, if I follow your method) in plastic, and wait till spring before I unveil it, layer up the compost and paper and start planting? Meanwhile keeping everything in pots...
Or, do the plastic routine for most of it, while digging a conventional bed to use right away?

I'll have a lot of plantlets to put out when I finally get my order from a Cornish nursery, which has been rather delayed, and no bad thing. All sorts of greens - cabbage, mizuna, spinach, chard. Can I plant them into the covered beds by puncturing the plastic?

Or best to leave the plastic to do its magic without puncturing it?

Sorry for the endless questions... :D

To further complicate matters, I can't use the south-facing border (that's the whole left-hand edge of the garden, in the pic) till I dig up the concrete path that runs the length of it. Hoping to do that after Christmas with help from my Dad and his concrete-breaking gear. Still, I can get started on the other side in the meantime.

[Plot69]

Impressive pics, Plot69! Your 'lazy raised beds' - are they layered (on card/paper/etc) or just soil and compost piled up?

I just dug one bed at a time. I marked a bed out with pegs and string and then dug and cleared it of roots and weeds. That done I had one bed ready to plant. I then moved on to the next bed and then the next and so on.

I aimed to get get one bed done at each visit to my plots, sometimes I managed two. Always look at what you've done, never at what is left to do and you'll be suprised at how quick it gets done.

Now that they're done they're easy to keep weed free. 15-20 minutes with a hoe at each visit, one or two beds at a time is a lot easier than hoeing and weeding whole plots dug in the conventional way.

[shaun01]

Hey Shaun, we've just moved in to this house! So I bear no responsibility for abandoned paddling pools, untrimmed hedges, unpainted fences etc etc! :D

We've had the council take away the paddling pool and the 5 (yes, 5) broken kitchen appliances that were lying around. It's never going to look like an ultra-neat garden with straight edges, cos I don't really do ultra-neat - but it will look *much* better 6 months from now. Honest! :D

i am glad you took it the way it was meant good luck and { get digging }or you could do what i did for my no dig system and flag it  ;D

[hellohelenhere]

Hehe Shaun - flagging it would certainly be no-dig! :D

It's looking a bit tidier already after a few hours work this morning:



Russian vine now severely clipped back - the brown stuff lying on the lawn is all the clippings. It grows from next door, or I'd kill it - a friend thinks I should sneakily poison it... Maybe I should - that house next door is on the market, so I could rip it out before new owners turn up and get any ideas. :D

[star]

Russian vine is almost indestructible.  Its a real thug, however someone here may have had success with killing it off.

Is the planter type thingy brick? Its a good idea to have taller raised beds to catch the sun. I have one shady border in summer. In winter it suffers perpetual night time ::)

Looking forward to seeing it as it develops.

Best of luck ;)

[1066]

looks like your making fantastic progress in clearing the garden - well done!
Having gardened for years but a novice in terms of allotments, my experience of gardens is that they tend to have an inch or two of soil then loads of builders rubble underneath  >:(  so the raised beds are probably a great idea  ;D  And having taken on a plot with loads of couch grass I'm doing a combination of things - covering with plastic, digging and lasagna beds

I'd leave the garlic in pots - I'm told they'll do fine. I have some in the ground and pots and as its the 1st time I've tried growing it in pots I won't be able to tell you for sure until summer! Besides what with all your plug plants arriving you will have plenty to do getting them in the ground

re the Russian Vine, I had one coming through from a neighbours, I just dug as much of the roots out from my side as I possibly could - it hasn't come back yet. You could also try glyphosphate (sp?) But I now have brambles coming through from another neighbours - also empty, but I did see 1 of the owners and they said it was ok for me to kill it off  ;D

Oh and you mentioned having a patch of nettles in the back - keep some going - great for butterflies and for making nettle tea and fertiliser  ;D ;D

[hellohelenhere]

Hi 1066
thanks, I feel like I've made a bit of progress in that it looks less like a tip! But I've barely started yet...
I haven't dared examine the ground, so far - I have no idea if it's all under-layered with rubble. If it is, then at least that simplifies my choices - raised beds all the way! Like you, I'll probably try various methods for different beds. Water-retention is an issue for me as we might travel, my husband being American - this year we were away for a month at a time, twice. I don't yet know if we'll have any long trips next year, but just in case, I don't want to have too much in pots as it would completely depend on me finding a helpful neighbour to water while I'm away. So, I do like to have stuff in the ground where it's less dependent.

Nettles - yes, I will keep a small patch behind the cherry tree. :)

Star, yes the high planter is brick; it has some roses in it. I'll put some sun-loving herbs in there too. Unfortunately, the logical area for herbs - nearest to the house - is also rather shady because of the conifers next door. The neighbour seems nice (and sane) so I'm hoping she'll agree to me cutting them down to 5-6ft and keeping them at that height, but they will still cast shade - and full shade, at this time of year. So that will have be a patch for greens rather than mediterranean herbs. Also for flowers. :)

[shaun01]

what a big difference excellent job see what you can do when you turn the TV off  ;D