Topic: Electric dog fence problem

[cocopops]

I have quite a large garden, which is fenced in.  Last year I had two male puppies, a retriever x and a vitzla x.  Although we had the odd incident of escaping, it was never really a problem.

Earlier this year we booked them in the be neutered but the day before the operation it was postponed by a week.  As is sods law would have it two of the bitches from next door's farm then came into season.  Both dogs then went totally ballistic and kept managing to escape, this even involved using the fence as a ladder and jumping over walls.

Although the dogs are now neutered they have not lost the desire to escape.  I have chains to keep them on but would prefer that they can roam around the garden.

Last week I invested in an electric dog fence on the recommendation of friend.  I put out the flags and watched the video instructions.  It advises walking the flags (where the beep should sound) then returning to a safe area.  At the point it beeped the retriever bolted over the wire and got a shock.  I have tried dragging him out over the 'safe areas' of the garden but he is terrified.  He yelps and wails even if he is no where near the  flags or fence.

He is such a wreck that I have now removed the fence to give him time to recover.  I really want this to work as it will improved everyone's quality of life so any advice would be appreciated.

[ipt8]

Dont now the size of your garden but I would recomend a stock fence that will keep pets in and deer out. Not sure if you know what I mean by stock fencing. Its squares, or actually rectangles of wire made up by line wires. The one I am thinking of is six feet tall and the rectangles are smaller at the bottom than the top. Its similar to deer fencing.
Let me know if you are not sure what I mean and I will see if I can find you links to suppliers.
It is probaly made by Sentinel fencing. I have bought it from AVS fencing in Surrey.

Another idea which I have no experience of is a similar thing made of plastic which is sold a pheasant netting.

On the electric fence idea I have seen a single wire system whereby the dog touching the wire earths it and gives the dog a shock. They soon learn to avoid it and know what stung them, contrary to the system you have. The one I saw had a single wire at twelve inches high and abou eight inches out from the fence. This is what keepers do to keep foxes out of pens. You also are wise to have a second wire at about four feet os so high also set out from the fence to discourage climbing. The power acn be mains or battery, it goes through the wire via a fencing unit, and the other connection goes to an earth stake to make the circuit. Oh on the funny side when the said dogs first encountered this tehy would not walk over the hose pipe in case it also stung them, but they did learn in time.

[betula]

Sorry but I do not see a funny side of giving your dogs an electric shock. >:(

[cocopops]

ipt8 I will read your post again tomorrow as it seems sensible.

Betula - trying living in the countryside where your dogs run on the road.  It would not be funny for them to cause an accident, or be involved in one.  By the way the 'friend' that advised to get the fence looks after by dogs when I am away and is a retired uk police dog handler (Sergeant)!!!!  He is up to his eyeballs with renovations hence why asked for advice on this site.

[DenBee]

Basic question, I know, but is there any adjustment available on the strength of the shock the dog is given?  It sounds to me like he's had quite a hit, which would certainly explain his reaction and his fear.  Also sounds like he's going to have to be given some lengthy time and motivation (positive rather than negative) in order to get him over this trauma.

I know this is an emotive subject, because I've read various threads on this on dog training forums.  I'd rather not get into the whys and wherefores and my own opinion of the matter, just looking at ways to overcome this situation.

[betula]

Why not invest time and money into training your dogs to obey you.

I do live in the countryside and my dogs are not allowed onto the road.

If you have the space have you considered building a dog run.

You say your retriever is terrified,surely that should tell you something.

I am sorry if you do not like my comments but I strongly feel people should not have dogs if they have to resort to inflicting pain on their animal.

[ipt8]

Hi cocopops

Do not be disheartened. I have heard of several people who used the system you have tried, and they are happy with it. Personally I would not fancy doing it. I expect you have a dog more gentle than the average, like people they all have different characters. Read the posts and you will get my gist. Thats just how people and dogs are, we have to learn to work with that.

Just let me know if you want more info on any of my ideas, I am happy to help any dog.

A run is also a good idea so they are free to exercise even if you are out, of reasonable size of course.

You might start with a run to give you time to sort out some fencing. A short term answer, not ideal I know, but just whilst you sort the other for a day or so, is a running line so the dog can run up and down for exercise. I am not in favour of this but in the short term its better than having your dog run over, shot chasing livestaock or whatever.

[cocopops]

Thank you for all positive impute.

Thinking I may have been cruel installing the  electric fence, I phoned my ex-police dog handler friend.  I reiterated the comments made upon me as bad dog owner. Comments as follows:

1st, his wife:
*I am cruel having an electric fence for my horses?  It is normal for cows,sheep etc.  This includes the fence that keeps the foxes out.
*Your dogs have had the temptation (of bitches on heat) so they know what's on offer.
*They are going through a teenage moment so they need to know the rules.

He said:
* I told you to stop treating them as children
*The fence he recommended is RSPC approved
*You have one very bright one and not so bright, the clever one is the problem
* I know them and I will be at your house at ten tomorrow to start to train them!!!

[betula]

Good luck with your training Cocopops.

I was thinking about your situation last night and I remembered an incident when one of my dogs made a run for it and it is terrifying.I wanted to say that as I do not want to be a hypocrite.

A large run can answer a lot of problems.

I do hope you can abandon the electric fence.I would hate you to lose the trust your dogs have in you.They are family pets,not livestock.
To me it is a bit like using a sledgehammer to crack a nut if you see what I mean.All the best.

[star]

Hi Cocopops,

Im so pleased that your friend has offered to help train your dogs with you. I had a beagle cross and a lab cross 11 years ago. They were really good till one day the beagle cross decided she was going for a jaunt and took her buddy along as well.

To cut a long story short, I found them at the local gamekeepers place in a kennel. He warned me they would be shot if they killed the pheasant poults.

I lost them again, the gamekeeper called the dog warden and I got the dogs back from a cell in the cop shop. The third time they got out, they didnt return and I didnt find them.

I had been warned and despite having a very high fence put up, their instincts were much stronger than anything I could do to stop them. If I could have had an electric fence, I would have done for those two and saved them from their ultimate fate.

All situations are very different, I have dogs now and there would be no need whatsoever for electric fencing.

I wish you good luck ;)

[cocopops]

Star that is really sad news.  Ours have managed to break out of three 'secure' areas so I understand there is only so much you can do.  One of mine leads the other so we collectively call them 'team cannine'.  We have the chasse (hunters) here in the winter and I always worry about them when I take them for a walk offlead.  One person's lifestyle is not anothers.  Our neighbours (farmers) love them and have no problem with them roaming on their farm.  Apparently my dogs love to sit and watch the cows being milked.  Their only worry is the road, it is very quiet but on a corner.  My ex-pc friend said they will always refer to type.  He suspects that the retriever X (vets opinion) also has border collie in him.  His desire to round up sheep also means he wants to round up cars.

Anyway, an update.  The neighbours have put up a cattle electric fence on their boundary as the dogs keep jumping in front of the tractor.  They never use this as a way of escape now.  My friend turned up and said "on get your coat and wellies on", I know him in social circles, but I was tempted to say "yes officer" as he reverted back to his professional role.  I was given a lesson on how to walk them, how much to I need to do per day, where and how they should be kept and above all be consistent.  One week on things are much improved, no dog poo to clean up in the garden, they are walked up the lane to 'do their business' in the boundaries and come home.  They spend the evenings with us inside (definitely off the sofas), then sleep in their kennel.  We are looking at blocking the few areas that they can get out and selling the electric fence maybe a bit optimistic).  They will still be walked to make sure that me keep our garden clean.  At the end of the tuition I felt like signing a confession on what a bad dog owner I was!!  I know he has our dogs, and our best interest at heart, he just thinks we spoil them (probably true).  His mantra that "they are dogs, not children, they think like dogs not humans", has finally sunk in everyone is much happier.

Thanks for all the feedback and encouragement.

[star]

You are not a bad dog owner, everything you have done for your dogs has been with love and to the best of your knowledge and ability. Just because we dont know all the answers and get things wrong does not make us negligent, we are ignorant through lack of knowledge and understanding.

But we can rectify those situations by getting advice from those that know and ex pc's :D, its too late for my two lovlies. I have learned to never trust a canine completely when there's more than one, Im one step ahead all the time now and have also learned to 'read' their moods and body language.

I am really pleased that things are working out for the better for all of you, happy dogs.........happier owners  :D

I wish you a long a fruitful relationship with your two scallywags :-*

[Old bird]

My two beautiful retrievers (unfortunately long gone) managed to touch an electric fence on a hillside on Exmoor.  They would not go near this place again without much encouragement and severe histrionics.  Bless them - The thing is the dogs don't always understand where the hurt came from I don't think they equate the shock with not doing something they just think it is a bad place to be.

Good luck with yours I think you are doing the right thing in trying to contain them and they are both intelligent breeds so should, in time, learn!

Isn't their a sonic thingy that creates borders whereby they wear a collar and if they go towards and try to cross an invisible line they get a noise of some sort?
I think I have seen it advertised as and "invisible fence".  Never heard of anyone using it though but they have been around for quite a while so may be worth looking into.

Goold luck anyway

Old Bird ::)