Topic: Minimum age limit for plotholders.....?

[Deb P]

Does anyones site have a specific age that potential plotholders have to be before they can put their name down for a plot? We are thinking of starting a junior membership for young people to participate more formally with an adult taking responsibility for plot and upkeep, but would welcome others thoughts on this and info on your plots policy, if any, on any minimum age requirement.

[cambourne7]

you need to sign a lease and this can only be done by an adult over the age of 18 as this is a legal contract.

[kt.]

18 at out place.

On a plot, on a nearby site, there is a lad of about 12 who keeps ducks & hens . He is there every day without fail since getting the plot over 18 months ago. Though this represents over half the plot, he does 90% of the work there. His dad has the contract and helps with fencing etc, but it is his 11-12 year old son who does the majority of the graft on the plot. The plot is a true transformation of its former self - a dumping ground. They have erected a chickenwire outer cage around the greenhouse (to protect against vandals), shed, henhouse, coldframe. He does extremely well. Maybe a bit too much of the plot is taken for livestock, but he does look after his plot better than some adults.

[cambourne7]

but there parents would have signed the lease

[Old bird]

Hiya Deb,

I am going to an allotment committee meeting this afternoon and on the Agenda is a letter from the Police asking whether they can have a plot for youngsters to get involved in!

I am all for encouraging the youngsters - my only problem is - if some of the "official youngsters" want to show off their plot to their "mates" then the door will be open to all manner of potential problems - ie theft of fruit vandalism etc. etc.  Normally the allotments are not an "inviting prospect" for most youngsters - mud and earth with paths!  But if they see what is going on and the strawberries/raspberries just there for the picking of a dimpsy evening well . . .

Call me a cynical old bag - but I won't be encouranging them - and it is not the kids that are on the scheme that I would be voting against - it would be the potential trouble if their friends found the allotment!

Old Bird

 :o

[Kea]

You can have the same problem with older plot holders showing their plot off to their mates as well. For example 'the mate' comes to watch and drinks beer all afternoon while watching and becomes annoying to other plotholders.

Youngsters with this sort of interest don't tend to have thugs for friends, my boys have friends similar in character to themselves.

[Old bird]

Hiya Kea

I am not trying to down all children - and not for a minute would I expect nicely brought up children to have "thugs" for friends!  But children are "silly" and they do "show off" to their mates - and someone may be mates of the thugs!  They unfortunately are not friendless and they normally encourage the "nicer kids" to do the bad things so that they feel "part of the gang".

I am not speaking from experience - as we don't (touch wood) have a vandal problem here - but I am aware of encouraging it to the plots by virtue of showing kids that they can go there!

Old Bird

[Deb P]

I understand what you are saying, but if kids don't get involved when do they learn to respect the hard work and pride that goes into maintaining a plot? I was surprised last year when my then 10 year old son asked if his mate could help him plant some potatoes on our plot (I was ill with 'flu and had asked him to get mine planted before it was too late!)

This friend was the last person I thought would be interested in such a thing, I couldn't imagine he ever ate any veg at home or did anything more energetic than picking up a remote control, but as I was going to sit well wrapped and supervise them I agreed. To my suprise he got totally into it, asked loads of questions about how we had cleared and renovated the plot, and asked to come down again. He helped out at our NGS Open Day in the summer, and came back to help harvest the potatoes he had planted, and was thrilled with the results. Now I'm not saying he has suddenly started eating 5 a day and growing lettuce in his bedroom, but he has had an insight into the lottie world and gained an appreciation that he would not have had otherwise.

My son is the one now asking for his own plot, and as he has been keen and helped out on my plot I would like to encourage him. As our site is a private one I don't know if the same rules apply as far as signing documents, at the last Committee meeting it was thought that 14 was the minimum age, we think based on the old school leaving age! I think setting up a Junior member scheme under adult supervision would be a good compromise, although with our waiting list he will probably be 18 before he got to the top of it anyway!! ;D

[Kea]

The problem is your are talking about a minority group and it's the same with all age groups the one's causing the problems are the ones that are in your face but they're probably only 10% but you'll never be aware of the nice ones because they're not causing trouble.
I would be overjoyed if my son was 'silly' occasionally instead he's far too serious anybody would think he is 35 with a mortgage not 14.

We've just planted a hedge along the entire windward side of our allotment and I could make a sweeping statement here and say all the dog walkers just walk straight through our new hedge with the dog leash and dog taking out a couple of metres of hedge on the way through. Thats not true though it's a few of the dog walkers trampling the hedge but they are giving the rest a bad name because we don't know one dog walker from another.

It's not children vandalising our plots it's older people stealing anything metal.

My oldest son has built a raised bed for my plot so he can grow gherkins this year and he's going to pickle them himself. Both my sons have been involved with the school garden which grows produce to pay for the upkeep of the small animals which are kept at school. They may not garden after leaving schoo/home but I'm confident they will come back to it one day.

[djbrenton]

We have organised groups on our site including childrens groups. The deal is that there are designated adults, one of whom must supervise at all times. These adults are also the only ones allowed access to the gate key. I can't imagine the Police want you to let groups of youths loose without supervision.

[antipodes]

It does sound like a good initiative, if proper supervision is given. On our plot, the problem is the old plotholders that do get quite the worse for wear with drunk and are generally a bit annoying and there are sometimes arguments.
I would say that a scheme that can give young people some fresh air and a bit of exercise would do them the power of good. And if everyone denigrates such a scheme from the start instead of giving them a go, they won't ever do anything like that, would they?
If they grow their own strawberries they won't need to nick other people's... maybe giving them some strawberry plants etc would be a good peacemaking initiative? Some of these "troublemakers" probably come from homes where they don't get fresh veg, or fresh air for that matter and where rows and fights are probably frequent and they might benefit from a place like a garden where there is peace and quiet and a healthy atmosphere. But since I am teh youngest on my plot (at 38!!!) I can't really say...

[manicscousers]

I think it's a brilliant idea, with appropriate supervision,  :)
plot holders must be 18+ on ours but their children are welcome, as long as they're not on their own..

[Old bird]

Hi all!

I think you are missing my point!  I agree that supervised children and encouraging them to learn how to and what is fresh food.  That is a wonderful initiative.  I also agree with the family idea of giving children a bed to be responsible for and grow their own!  No problems at all for me.

The reason I am against the "iniative" of encouraging teenagers onto allotment plots that don't have a family connection could encourage them to - when they are off the leash/unsupervised and out for the night - going up to let off steam and potentially vandalise sheds/greenhouses etc.

The police in my area were trying to start a similar scheme (the committee meeting was yesterday) but they were also including some children from the 24/7 school.  These are kids that have been so disruptive/badly behaved  in Bristol and city areas that they have parked them all here in a large residential "school" and they play havoc from the school, causing damage throughout the town!

Whilst I accept that not all kids are bad all the way through!  I certainly would not encourage them into our allotments!  I suggested that, as the school is situated on the outskirts of town with a huge acreage, they could do their allotment there.  Keeping potential trouble away from allotmenteers.

Luckily we don't have any drunks or rowdy people on our plot - if you discount me - of course.  I would not like that at all though.

I think that as I live in a quiet area with very little trouble - I see things differently from some of you who obviously have trouble with a capital T in your areas.

Old Bird ;)

[Deb P]

Visitors to our site is a bit of a contentious issue a the moment that we have been asked to look at generally; we already have visits from various groups including schools. What we are proposing is along the lines of formal supervised family only access.

It does sound as though the 'more mature' folk are giving more problems on some sites from what you have all posted though!! ;D

[Trevor_D]

Our Terms & Conditions state that no family or guests may be at the site without the plot-holder - obviously, we can relax this a bit if we know that folk are ill or on holiday - and that the plot-holder is responsible for guests' behaviour on site.

And coming back to the original question, why do you have to be 18 to sign the lease? You can get a job, drive a car, get married and join the army before that. Now my older grand-daughter is 7 she can operate her own Building Society account, albeit with an adult in tow, but at 12 she can do it on her own and even gets a debit card!

I'm not arguing carte blanche for kids to take on allotments, but some 10 or 12 year olds are a lot more responsible & hard-working than some 30 or 40 year olds! It's never come up (yet) on our site, but I think the idea of a junior section is brilliant.

[manicscousers]

we're worried as, if they're minors, we have to think of police checks ?
that's why we go with supervision

[djbrenton]

I think you'll also find that your public liability insurance doesn't cover unaccompanied children. Imagine the whole site let to 12 year olds and put yourself in an insurers position.

[mrf94]

On a weekend i take the young un with me he loves going to the allotment,

I try to strike a balance between work and play, He pushes the barrow helps clear rubish etc , I take fatballs up the plot its his job to climb the tree and tie them to the branches he has  his own hut  i built him ,all this is the good stuff your talking about.

Then came the day three off his mates came to check out all the stuff he must have told them at school, I then had to explain that not only would they get in trouble for being there but that i would as well ,( it was the ?nicest way i could think of to get them to go) I didnt know them from Adam
so they could have been ok or not ,and ive put to much work into my plot to want to find out,
Thats the other side of the coin that Old bird is trying to get across.


mrf

[saddad]

I've been staying out of this one Deb... but you have my vote for him!
 ;D

[Jeannine]

Half full, half empty?? I prefer to think of kids as decent first rather than the other way around, therefore I would presume a kid wanting to grow should be allowed to, showing off and inviting some "unhealthy kids?" cross that one when you come to it as you would with anything else to do with kids. I wouldn't want to run the risk of not encouraging anyone to grow.

I couldn't say  I know there are some GOOD kids out there, I would say I know there are some BAD kids out there but I would give them all the same chance.Kids first eh!!

XX Jeannine