Topic: If an allotment site is an ameniety should it pay for itself?

[Kea]

Our Parish Councils Town Clerk has just suggested a 43% increase in plot rental because it is claimed our site runs at a loss.
This has come after requests from our newly formed allotment association for them to actually do the jobs they claim they do e.g. maintain the access tracks. Our allotment site was moved sideways a few years ago to allow the cemetery to get bigger, parts of the cemetery now have the allotment water supply but as they failed to move this sideways with the allotments the newer allotments are now a long way from the water. We have asked for the water supply to be extended to cover the new section, those of us who took plots in that area were told 3 years ago that it would. They now complain that the allotments don't pay for themselves and I notice that no money has been allocated in the next years budget for any work at all at the allotments. As it is classed as an amenity I can't why they should expect it to cover it's own costs.
We have water on site, we have access tracks (good weather or 4x4 only!) we have no fencing around the site. Behind my site on an 'access' track there is a pile of rubbish put there by the council workers 3 years ago when they cleared the new allotments that blocks the track and grows blackberry and thistles in it and seeds over my plot. At £15 per year you can put up with some of this but what should we expect for the £50 they would like to charge us?

[OllieC]

The swine! I can't see how kiddies play parks pay for themselves, although they must make a killing out of our leisure centre. Sounds like you've got Mr Prescott on your local council!

[saddad]

I'd start by asking to see a detailed account of what they spent the last three years rents on....
We have run at a loss some years but have no ground rent to pay as we own it, the site ourselves... which means are rents are like yours @ £15 pa but council sites run at £ 45+ pa... if you are paying ground rent that might explain it... but to whom?
 :-\

[Kea]

It's run by the parish council under an amenity, which to me doesn't mean it's meant to make a profit. We've asked for their accounts and received the last year and this year so far. They claim 400hours of ground staff time.....these guys drive in once in a blue moon do a circuit around in their truck stop and talk to a few people strim for 20 mins and drive out again. 400 hours is a stretch of the imagination. Apparently there are some plot holders who never pay so looks like the PC think the easy option is get the rest to pay more. We got charged an extra 40p this year to cover the postage costs. I would pay some more but not quite that much but I'd want something for the extra.
We've got a new Town Clerk who wants to make her mark, she's got lots of ideas!

[Old bird]

Hi Folk

I am always wary of complaining if they want to increase the rent to what is nowadays a realistic if not hugely increased rent.  The costs to the Parish or Council are not always apparent!

The 400 man hours could be two blokes driving from somewhere to the plot maybe 1/2 hour?  Then the strimming which they possibly exaggerate then the drive back another 1/2 hour plus the cost of the petrol - maintenance on the strimmer, petrol to get to and fro.  Yes I would agree that it does sound excessive - but with clever creative accounting you can make a small job quite a bit bigger.

The only reason I say this is if your plot is not covering its costs it then gives the Council the chance to say "it is not paying so we will build on it and recoup our losses".   And, sensibly, a pound a week rent is, these days, for the pleasure and produce we get, not a huge amount?!

I am very much one of those people who say - well if they aren't doing it - we shall -  and get a group of strong men and women to do the extra pipework for the further water supply (one of you are bound to know, be married to or have a relative who knows a bit about plumbing). It would cost peanuts if you all chipped in.  As for driveways - get someone to donate hardcore and get it done yourselves.

I made a fence/gate where someone was coming in and letting their dog pee and poo on my rhuabarb and veggies.  He doesn't come any more.  It is a bit power to the people - but if you want it done - think about tackling it yourselves and not just wait for the Council to do it!

Get rid of the plot holders who don't pay also - why should they make everyone else pay their rent? Why shouldn't the allotment plots pay their way?  Why should someone who has no interest in allotments chip in to make up a shortfall?

Sounds like the new Town Clerk may have the proverbial new broom - I think with a bit of give (on your part) and take you will all come out better for it.

Old Bird

 ;D

[Kea]

We have done stuff for ourselves we've just planted a very long hedge, we got the plants for free by contacting the right people so eventually we will have some shelter from the prevailing wind and the weed seeds carried by the wind!

The two blokes...yes it is two... their main hobby being driving around and most of the plot holders know where they hide out for part of the day when they're 'working'.

They won't tell us who the non paying plot holders are and while they still have their plots and are not paying why should everyone else pay more. I don't object to paying more but not to subsidise others and not for nothing.

[delboy]

How about taking over the whole kit and caboodle by way of a Lease? Our site has 74 allotments and is held on a Lease from Kingston Council.

We are down for the maintenance generally, but from time to time the Council does come and clear streams and culverts, as would be expected with a Lease.

We charge £47.50 per able bodied/non OAP, with discounts for various things, and we have managed to bank £1800+ for uses such as improving car parks/skips/whatever. For the London area the cost seems reasonable, but as Chairman, I would say that!

The Council benefits because they don't have to do any work other than a bit of clearing up, and we control who gets plots and general behaviour - as well as the finances!

I don't trust councils generally, in that they are self-aggrandizing bullies from time to time, and can cause trouble for no good reason, other than the short-sighted pursuit of profit. Politics on the small scale mirroring what goes on on the larger scale in Westminster.

What would concern me is that the "new broom" you mention could cost you much more dearly if you are all little more than an entry in a cash-flow..

How about meeting with a Councillor or two?

Derek

[kt.]

Apparently there are some plot holders who never pay so looks like the PC think the easy option is get the rest to pay more.

Withold payment till the others pay and see what happens. You would not be refusing, just delaying until everyone else catches up. Then pay to bring you up to date with rent. ;)

[Kea]

We're having a meeting shortly, the PC are unlikely to let this land out of their control as it's really the only land they have control of. Our allotment association is still fairly new so not that many have joined, most of the members are the newer allotment holders. I can't see the older allotment holders being particularly pleased about a tripling of the rent to fund improved water supply for the newbies either.
As for maintenance we're only asking them to do what they are supposed to do according to the contracts we signed.

Every winter we get a letter reminding us not to drive onto the site over winter when the ground is soft and to park in the car park. I was totally bemused the first time I got this because I didn't know where the car park was, I asked around and nobody knew because there is no carpark...the person writing the letter has never been to the site!

[Kea]

Yes KT but we'll have to wait till next October as we've paid for this year.