Topic: Waiting Lists and Plot Inspections

[BAK]

I have formed the view, rightly or wrongly, that there is a strong correlation between waiting lists and plot inspections.

I have used this view to support a policy of plot inspections on our site where there is a reasonable, though arguably not excessive, waiting list.

Am I right or wrong?

Do you have a waiting list on your site? ... and do you have plot inspections? Please let me know.

If you have any numbers  ... numbers on the waiting list versus the number of plots on the site ... then that would be a bonus.

I will summarise the responses at the end of Jan for anybody who is interested.

Thanks .. in anticipation.

Brian

[Slug_killer]

Location:  South East Birmingham

Number on waiting list                            0
Number of inspections a year                 2 sometimes 3
Number of plots                                      60ish
Number of empty plots                           2 or 3
Number of people with 3 plots or more   3
Number of people with 2 plots               4

I've included those with more that one plot as I believe that, when there's a waitling list, it is just as disrespectfully to have more that one plot as it is to have one and not use it.

BAK
I'm not sure these are the kind of figures you are looking for, but they are still valid allotment statistics.

[BAK]

That's more than I was expecting .. thanks very much Slug_killer.

[Baaaaaaaa]

Hmmmmm,

Perhaps you could tell us what you want the response to say, so that those who have data that fit the required response can answer, and those that don't ... well ... err ... don't.

Cynically Baaaaaaaa.

PS. I used to work for an agency that collected data on public opinion for government research, data that strangely always appeared in the final report, to support whatever it was the government wanted to do.

[BAK]

Baaaaaaaa,

I thought that I had spelled out my position .. perhaps you could explain to me which part of it you did not understand.

And as I go on to say .. I would quite like to know if I am right or wrong.

I would expect people who think that I have some ulterior motive or am trying to engineer a specific response to simply ignore my request .. presumably that includes you.

[SMP1704]

We have 38 plots
24 people on the waiting list
5 plotholders have given up their tenancy this year.
4 of these plots will be turned into 8 half plots - the other is an odd shape
Inspections, apparently the council do a couple a year
Since we have formed an association, as Secretary I have carried out one inspection

Can I just say how much I hate that word 'inspection'  I am most certainly not the allotment police.  The trigger for my walkaround was to provide the council with information about worked/unworked plots in response to the increased waiting list.

Hope that helps BAK

[BAK]

thanks SMP1704.

I also dislike the term inspection .. very open to ideas for something better and more constructive.

[jockomorrocco]

how about appraisal or assessment

[BAK]

thanks jockomorrocco .. both certainly better than inspection.

[Baaaaaaaa]

Sorry BAK,  Just that reading both your initial post and Slugs together, made me think ...

  a) Your not interested in plots which are badly kept and where there is no waiting list and what effect an 'inspection' has on them.
  b) Your not interested in allotments where a minority of people can hold 'excessive' number of plots (Where 'excessive' is any number from 999,999 downwards)
  c) Your not interested in plot size, plot sharing, or half plots.
  d) What classifies as an 'Inspection' and by whom and are they biased in any way.
 
And that,  this post is titled as such,   and on this board  would seriously effect the randomness of your sample size of the data population and lead samples of "Inspections=lower waiting lists" to be reported more  frequently than any other response.

Which implies that any notion of a meaningfull result would be skewed in favour of
Inspections=lower waiting lists,  as "No inspections" can never statistically  mean lower waiting lists.

Also what notion is a "higher waiting list" anyway - how can the mean waiting list be determined without a sizeable and complete random sample, or a complete population data collection.


My lottie has no waiting list, therefore I feel I fall outside your parameters ... so YES that does include me.



I'll shut up now and await your report with anticipation.

[saddad]

We have tried to monitor cultivation over the 10 years or so I have been on the committee, but under the old regime "inspection" usually meant who had fallen out with the chairman and were being "terminated". Deb P has started a fair system of assessment...
We have about 175 Plots... some of variable size and about 105 tenants. Some multiple occupancy, I have 4, the Ex-chairman 11 allegedly...
A waiting list of about 20... at least 12 Plots so poorly cultivated that we want them off sharpish and about 20 more subject to "improvement orders"...
 ;D

[Barnowl]

About 120 plots and half plots.
No-one has more than one
Waiting List 45+
Monthly inspections: two warning letters then eviction. All tenants sign an agreement every year, when paying the sub, accepting one month's notice if they break the rules. In fact the eviction process takes around 3 months.

The warning letters and the reasons for sending them are porperly minuted although the actual plots concerned are kept anonymous (referred to as 'plot A', 'plot B' etc.  The committee seem pretty fierce and perhaps a little self important, but they do a lot of work on behalf of the allotments and seem impartial. I think that the proper minuting and publishing of proceedings always helps keep matters above board.

Annual turnover about 10 plots.

PS Amazingly enough, despite the length of the waiting list,  a plot came up recently and was turned down by three people because it had a small greenhouse on it and needed a bit (not a lot) of work. I can't see those types lasting long when they finally do graciously accept a plot - we don't allow plot holders to use gardeners :)

[Oldhippy]

Your site seems very efficient Barnowl - is it council run or private? What do you do if you give somebody their marching orders and they just don`t go?
One of my allotment neighbours was given the heave-ho last year and she just ignored it. She refused to give up her key and just ignored letters etc. Her gate to her uncultivated plot is securely padlocked.
What rights have you got if that happens?

[SMP1704]

I can't see those types lasting long -Barnowl

You are right that a lot of potential plotholders seem quite picky. 

This story was relayed to me - a couple wandered on to the site one Sunday and because they were unfamiliar a plotholder approached them.  CIP had told them to come and look at the site and 'choose' a plot.  The plotholder kindly showed them the plots she knew to be vacant.  the couple were quite dismayed at the jungle wilderness that could be their plot ;D  they walked further down where some of the plots are cultivated saying saying "that they wouldn't mind taking on one of those" >:(

What they don't realise is that all of the plots were wild and has taken several years of effort to get them looking reasonable.

Don't think we'll be seeing them again :P

[Barnowl]

Oldhippy,

The plot is leased from the Water Board - Thames I assume.

I'm not sure what they do if someone refuses to get off the plot because although there is only one way in through a pair of iron gates that are always locked, it must be quite hard to prevent someone determined hanging on to their key although there is a legal obligation and the deposit of £30 which they won't get back until they return it

When you first get the key you do sign a form promising not only to return it when you leave but also to hand over any copies you've had made. There are  one or two olduns who've given up their plots but been allowed to keep their keys because of past services to the Society.


As far as accessing the individual plot, one of the terms of the lease is that after the eviction date,  anything left on the plot becomes the property of the Allotment Society. So if you leave a padlock, your favourite stainless steel spade or even a greenhouse behind, after the due date it just ceases to be yours. So the padlock could be broken without any legal issues arising.

SMP1704 Yes,  people don't seem to realise that even once the plot is cleared the work has only started. Apparently some people last only one season.

[Chloe]

Hi Bak

We have 30 plots on our site with 36 plot holders.  We have a waiting list of 5.

Our site is run on behalf of the local council, so we have our own committee and our own AGM every year where we discuss any problems or things plot holders think the societies money should be spent on in the coming year.

The committee have regular meetings and we have our own web site where all minutes of meetings are put. 

As it is a small site most of us know the reason why a plot holder is not working their plot, so usually no problems.  If it is a new plot holder, the secretary would usually write asking if there was a reason why they weren't working their plot and depending on the answer it would be taken from there.  If the plot was totally neglected and caused problems to other plot holders we would give them notice to quit.  Usually we are very tolerant but if it is obvious they weren't going to work their plot then they wouldn't be offered renewal of the plot when the rent demands went out.

The committee does do site inspections but then that would also involve checking fencing, leaking water tanks etc.

As secretary of the site I am more into plot holders getting pleasure from their plots and not into weed free plots, I do realise not everyone on the committee agrees with me, so we are quite a well balanced committe.

Hope this is of some help.

Chloe

[BAK]

No sign so far of sites that have no plot inspections (appraisals)?? ... apart from ours that is.

[bupster]

We don't have plot inspections but do, for the first time in many years, have a waiting list. I don't think inspections are fair if there is an alternative; it's taken me three years to get my plot into shape and though I was working on it all that time, to a casual observer there have been months gone past where the front half especially has looked like a meadow covered in bits of scrappy plastic. It's also horrible for people whose health or personal circumstances aren't good - the fear that your one refuge or place of safety might be taken away.

[Trevor_D]

It's not folk like you, bupster, who are the problem. It's the ones who consider they've done their duty by writing an annual cheque, but whom we never see!

We don't have 'inspections' as such, but we do a lot of walking around and we know who's putting in the hours and who isn't. And on the whole we know - or make it our business to find out - whether it's personal circumstances or merely lack of commitment. If in doubt they get a letter: initially, it's a gentle enquiry; but several plot-holders have had warning letters.

We have 80+ plots and two small-holdings. At the moment we have no free plots & a very small waiting-list. (Though this might change, as we're about to send out next year's bills!)

[bupster]

That sounds a lot like what happens with ours. However, on another site quite near ours, people get cross letters if their plots get just a little overgrown, which would pretty much exclude me from ever being able to take on a plot there. It's a tough balance to strike, particularly if you have a long waiting list, I know; it's just that I'd hate to see allotment sites being exclusively for people with lots of time on their hands, when they're often needed most by people who haven't much for themselves at all.