Topic: The origin of vegetables

[Robert_Brenchley]

Parsnips have been grown since ancient times, but the modern varieties (well, not that modern!) aren't ancient. Medieval parsnips were a lot thinner. As for vegetarianism, it's been around a long time (many Hindus are vegetarians) and it goes perfectly well with subsistence agriculture in a reasonably fertile area, but I can't imagine it in a hunter-gatherer situation. Not that that's particularly relevant to our cosseted modern societies.

[Palustris]

Cqattle will not eat growing Ragwort. It has an unpleasant taste probably indicated by smell. The problem with Ragwort comes when it is included in hay. As it dries it loses its nasty taste and becomes 'edible' except that it is even more poisonous.
Apples are the most fascinating things to me. There are no examples in the wild which remotely resemble our orchard apples. So far all the populations examined are of hybrid origin.

[Trixiebelle]

What an interesting subject!  :)

Will cattle & horses not eat ragwort then??

When I was little we used to look after my cousin's dairy-farm over the summer holidays and it was my job to go and gather ragwort from all the grazing fields?

Were they just trying to get rid of me for a few hours do you think?!?

[Ceratonia]

As Palustris said - cattle won't eat the plant because it smells/tastes bad, but once it's been made into hay, it's still poisonous but the animal has no way to detect it.

It's a notifiable weed under the 1959 act and landowners have a legal obligation to do something about it (unlike say Knotweed).

One of the things that really struck me the first time I saw that Jimmy's Farm on BBC2 was that they had Ragwort everywhere and not even the vet seemed to pick up on it.

[Rhubarb Thrasher]

ragwort is something landowners are supposed to get rid of or control, for the sake of horses

http://www.buglife.org.uk/conservation/currentprojects/ragwort/  

doesn't it cause liver disease or something?

[Trixiebelle]

It does stink to high heaven, I can vouch for that  ::)

We've had it for the 1st time ever @ the allotments this year.

Some wild plants look very similar to ragwort though ref: on Jimmy's Farm.

[saddad]

It's a host for cinnibar moths as well...
 :-X

[Trixiebelle]

It's a host for cinnibar moths as well...
 :-X

Does it hold cocktail parties for them Saddad?!  ;D

[saddad]

They ingest the poison and display their bad taste by being a bright red!
Alcohol would probably be safer!
 ::)

[bupster]

Doesn't groundsel look really similar? We should probably build a weed wiki with photos for identification. Any volunteers? ::)

[Rhubarb Thrasher]

Oxford Ragwort is quite pretty IMHO, and if you want to photograph moths insects etc just head for the ragwort

[Trixiebelle]

Rhubarb! It does say on the link that you posted that ragwort is an integral part of some insects' survival. I agree 100% with that and I wouldn't cut it down willy-nilly.

Even if it IS the host to the cinnabar moth (sorry Saddad ;) )

  :)

[Ceratonia]

Defra have a load of material on their website about how to tell if it is common ragwort or not. Oxford Ragwort (and others) are not covered by the law.

Going back to Apples - the Greeks wrote about grafting Apple cultivars in 300 BC. There's archaelogical evidence of apples being grown in israel/palestine 12 000+ years ago - well outside the native range of malus species and well before anyone had starting cereal farming.

Anyone read Jared Diamond's book Guns, Germs & Steel? It's mainly about domestication of plants and animals and how this has been one of the driving forces of human history & why particular civilisations turned out the way they did.

[Rhubarb Thrasher]

Rhubarb! It does say on the link that you posted that ragwort is an integral part of some insects' survival. I agree 100% with that and I wouldn't cut it down willy-nilly.

glad to hear you don't go round chopping down willies, even if they are nilly

[Barnowl]

Presumably the ones that eat the wrong food don't survive long enough to breed  - natural selection ;D

[redimp]

Ragwort is one of the weeds I tolerate on the margins of my allotment because of its usefulness to wildlife.   No horses about either and I do pull up ragwort from the grassy areas that I cut down for hay for my guinea pigs.

[theothermarg]

Defra have a load of material on their website about how to tell if it is common ragwort or not. Oxford Ragwort (and others) are not covered by the law.

Going back to Apples - the Greeks wrote about grafting Apple cultivars in 300 BC. There's archaelogical evidence of apples being grown in israel/palestine 12 000+ years ago - well outside the native range of malus species and well before anyone had starting cereal farming.

Anyone read Jared Diamond's book Guns, Germs & Steel? It's mainly about domestication of plants and animals and how this has been one of the driving forces of human history & why particular civilisations turned out the way they did.

this seemed like a interesting book to read, so got it from play.com £6.99
marg