Topic: Failed again!

[tim]

Tried really hard - strong flour - instant yeast - well kneaded - well proven - brushed with garlic oil + topping - hot oven.

They should have been DEEP like Mabys' 2" things - not biscuits!!

Or won't 1lb flour dough do that for 4 x 9" pizzas?

[Squashmad]

They look delicious though Tim, and you've just made me VERY VERY HUNGRY!! ;)

[cambourne7]

when you rolled them out did you allow them a second proving???

[tim]

No - followed Claudia Roden's Italian recipe . Wondered about that.

Second proving with or without topping?

[calendula]

and best to use a deep pizza pan which helps, rather than cooking flat - made me feel hungry too  ;D

[Doris_Pinks]

Tim for 20 years I have used Julia Childs Pizza dough recipe, has never failed me.........yet! ;D ;D
We are sad in this house as most Friday nights is "make your own Pizza" night, started when the girls were young to get em cooking, and now we still do it, in fact they insist! (because they get what they want on their pizza!)
I am a thin n crispy fan myself, but youngest likes them thick, so just doesn't roll hers out as thinly as the rest of us, so maybe you need to double the recipe to have a thicker base of the same size? (rolls up the edges too to stop her toppings falling off!)
We never second prove, and just bung on the toppings, ( I cut up loads of stuff and let them help themselves!) and via a pizza paddle sprinkled with cornmeal, (make it on the paddle so it just slides off easily) into a gas 8/9 oven, in which terracotta floor tiles have been heated up to temp. (solid baking sheets work too!)
My favorite at the moment is no tomato base, but the dough topped with goats cheese, garlic, red onion, sun dried tomatoes, capers, olives a drizzle of olive oil,  (and if we have visited lidls, their cheap Serrano ham on the top)
then 5 mins before they are due to come out, a sprinkle of rocket to wilt.This recipe gives us 4 pizza's...................looking forward to Friday now! ;)
I used to do the food processor method, but now it all goes into my bread machine.

All in American Cup measures, sorry!

This dough, which can be used for pizza, foccaciaa, calzone, and the like, is very simple to make, especially if you have a food processor. You do need to give it time to rise, but you can do this overnight in the refrigerator. Just make the dough the night before you intend to use it. The slower rising at the cool temperature seems to produce a smoother dough too.

The recipe is based on the one for Basic Pizza Dough in Julia Child's The Way To Cook, with added instructions for making the dough by hand and for refrigerator rising.

Basic pizza dough

1 package dry yeast (2 teaspoons)
1/2 cup of lukewarm water
Pinch of sugar
1/2 - 3/4 cup of milk
2 Tbs of good olive oil
3 cups of high-gluten flour, such as bread flour
1 tsp. salt
You can start the dough several hours before you intend to make the pizza, or just make it the day before and let it rise in the refrigerator.

Mix the yeast, water and sugar in a cup, and let proof (become foamy) in a warm place. Mix this yeast mixture with the milk.

Food processor method: put the flour and salt into the bowl. Turn the machine on and add about half of the yeast-milk mixture, then the oil. Add the rest of the yeast-milk mixture a bit at a time until the dough forms a ball around the blade. If necessary add a bit more milk, but this shouldn't be necessary. Turn the machine off, let rest for 5 minutes, then process for a few seconds more.

Hand mixing method: In a large bowl, put the flour and salt mixed together. Make a well in the middle of the flour and add half the yeast-milk mixture, and the oil. Mix with a wooden spoon. Add more of the yeast-milk mixture until the dough forms a shaggy, soft mass.

Turn the dough out onto a floured surface. Knead for a few minutes until the dough is amalgamated, adjusting with more milk or flour if necessary. The dough will be sticky at first but will soon become quite smooth. Let rest for a few minutes, then knead again until smooth and soft and pliant.

If you're going to be using the dough later the same day, put the dough in a clean bowl, cover with a plate or plastic, and let rise for about 90 minutes, until more than doubled in bulk. If you intend to use this dough the next day, put it in a plastic bag, flatten the bag to get the air out, and close tightly. Put the dough in the refrigerator. The next day, the dough bag will look like a balloon. Bring it out, and let come to room temperature.

The dough is now ready to use.

[Pigletwillie]

Your pizza look good Tim, but why would you want a mouthful of stodgy dough to ruin the taste of all the wonderful toppings, have you never had a real Italian pizza with a crisp thin crust? However with pizaa, everybody has their favourite, toppings and styles so each to their own.

Ovens just dont get hot enough to make a really good pizza so we made a clay oven this summer, the results were just outstanding giving a fabulous tasting pizza or calzone in 3 minutes.

http://pigletsplots.blogspot.com/2007/06/pizza-pie.html

Oh, and as for flour, it NEEDS to be OO flour to do the business, anything else just is not strong enough.

[tim]

Because, David, I just love the fluffy (not stodgy!) bread.

The dough of the best we had - in Positano - was deep fried!

Can't compete with 3 mins - our oven is 440F & takes about 10 mins.

[Pigletwillie]

Its the quick cooking that makes the difference Tim and domestic ovens just dont get hot enough to do that hence the clay oven which gives heat from top and bottom and is what makes all the difference to the base.

Where most people go wrong with pizza is to overload it with too much topping which can make it go soggy. Your toppings however Tim can serve as a benchmark of just about perfect, well covered but not saturated.

Deep fried sounds an interesting option, but probably best tried only every now and again.

[calendula]

I'd love to build a clay oven - would like one of those ovens that Jamie has  :o

[tim]

As a matter of interest, how hot is a clay oven?

[Pigletwillie]

The oven is around  450°C , somewhere near to 800°F and is perfect for making pizzas, if you stop feeding the fire it will drop to about 300°C - 572°F which is still great for pizzas, but too hot for bread. When the temperature has dropped to around 450°F or 230°C, you can put an al forno and a roast  or a big lasagne in. Bread goes in last so it doesn't bake too fast on the outside and after a touch of water is sprayed in to give a bit of steam.

A wooden door is fitted after the fire has stopped being fed and the embers raked out to keep the heat in.

[calendula]

they vary enormously depending if they have guages or not but tandoors need to reach 400c - phew

[Baccy Man]

As a matter of interest, how hot is a clay oven?

My homemade tandoor usually gets to between 400°C to 450°C I would expect a pizza or mud brick oven to acheive higher temperatures as they are more enclosed.

I have been considering making one using one of these methods.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A1304795
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2005/06/make_your_own_m.php

[Pigletwillie]

I made mine like so

http://pigletsplots.blogspot.com/2007/06/wood-buring-pizza-oven.html

I work in a granite quarry and the overburden is pure clay which helped, by chance Ibstock brick is over the road. It was fun to make and sits to one side of our outdoor fire place, on top of one of the log stores actually. It is going to be covered with a thick cement render as the clay is not weatherproof.

[tim]

That is HOT, David!!

You could glaze china??

[legendaryone]

You could try a pizza stone or failing that put the baking tray in the oven to get it really hot then put the pizza on.
I like a thick pizza and double prove my dough then put the fillings on  :)

[star]

They ARE fantastic LO, we have one at our site of organic growing and sustainable living project near Northampton.



If you have room for one Tim go for it, they do baked potatoes as well very fast.

[tim]

Monumental!
How long to temperature - on what?

Do you do a batch for freezing to use the fuel to advantage?

[Barnowl]

On telly the other night, mad scientist chef Heston Blumenthal built a tandoor oven in his carpark by using a mini JCB to dig a hole then lining the hole with bricks (part of the process of making a perfect Chicken Tikka Marsala).  Only took about 7 hours!

He accepted that this probably wasn't the ideal solution for most people :D and came up with using a kettle style BBQ with a triangular tower of bricks in the middle surrounded by the hot charcoal. NB important no burning charcoal inside the hole formed by the triangle of bricks as any fat  dripping down would cause major flare ups.  It easily got up to the high temperatures required.