Topic: This really isn't funny anymore!

[Anthony]

Hi all,

I'm sad to say that over the weekend I discovered yet another one of my fish had succumbed to the mystery disease that exists in my pond.  In total I have now lost 6 fish to this disease since May.  (2 Orfe, 1 Shub and 3 Goldies!) I'm really at a loss as to what is causing it.  All the fish that have died have had sores mainly on their sides that have got progressively worse and then become fatal!

The weird thing is that my pond is in 3 connected sections, 2 of which house fish.  All six fish that have died have been from the bottom section.  Is it now worth transferring the fish from the "cursed" section into the safe one or will this make no difference?

Thanks

Tony

[Margaret]

Hi Tony.I am very sorry to hear of further problems.As you say,it is strange that it is only happening to the fish in the bottom pond.It sounds as if they have injured themselves on something and bacteria has set in,causing ulceration and a miserable death.The quality of the water is obviously not 100% or they would be able to fight off minor injuries.Do you think there is anything in that section that has a rough edge that the fish could have caught themselves on? Well worth having a look.How many do you have left in there now,how much room do you have in the other section,and have you treated the pond with anything? Plus,have you tested for ammonia/nitrate levels? Now that the water is so cold,fish have less chance of fighting infections.Certainly you must stop feeding if you haven't already.
It will not be a mystery disease.Most people assume a newly bought fish to have brought disease with it,but it does not happen like that.However,a recently bought fish could succumb to the stress of being moved,and the differing water quality.They are more sensitive than people think.I know you have done as much as anyone could to do it right,but sometimes bad luck hits and i should know because it happened to me a lot in the early days.I would move them to the top if you can catch them without streessing them,but more important to find out what is causing the problem first.
 

[Anthony]

Thanks Margaret,

I do check both PH and Nitrate levels fortnightly and they always give favourable readings i.e. ph 7.5 and the Nitrate shows as clear!  The 2 sections are practically identical other than water flows into the top from the filter, whereas it flows out of the bottom to the said filter.  

The fish who died this weekend was one of the initial 4 we bought in May.  Like the others that have died previously it seemed fine upto the point of it's sorry end.   I still have 10 left in the bottom (5 orfe, 5 goldfish) and about that number in the top.  I was thinking of just moving the goldfish into the top as I'm certain that if I did move the Orfe they would be back in the bottom via the waterfall before too long anyway!!

Also while I have you here Margaret what do I need to do with these here plants I have?  The Water Lillies are now begining to look a bit worst for wear and I wasn't sure exactly what to do with them! Also what should I do about the Parrots feather?  Should I just get stuck in with the garden clippers?

thanks

Tony

[Margaret]

Hi Tony.I am beginning to wonder whether,despite the water readings, you have had too many fish too soon and though the readings are alright now,there could have been a sudden deterioration that you may not have noticed.Anyway,about your plants.Any water lilies starting to go black,or even yellow,need a good firm tug to get the whole stalk away from the pot.If the stem breaks,it will come away when it has further rotted.Yes,do trim up the parrots feather,you can be quite ruthless,because it will grow again from quite low down.If you don't,the leaves will go all mushy when the pond gets icy,and will not be good water quality wise.

So you think there is nothing that can have hurt the fish?Do make sure.It is surely more than co incidence that it was only at the bottom that you had the problems.Personally I would leave them.Fish do not like being moved.Perhaps too you have been overfeeding them a little.Very easy to do,I did in the early days.We all have to live and learn!  I do hope you have no more problems.

[Anthony]

hmmm!!

Now your asking!!!

Not sure if this is the answer to the question you asked but the filter is made up of 2 sections the first being a thick sponge which filters out the "solid waste"  The second being made up of tiny circular platic "things" about the same size and shape as the top of a fabric conditioner bottle!  I generally clean the sponge section every 2-3 weeks using pond water of course.  I've never cleaned the plastic cups (not sure if/how to)

I've not added anything to the filter other than filter start (Not sure exactly what this contains) which I added for the first few weeks after adding the fish!

I'm scheduled for a clean and test again this weekend so I'll let you know how it goes.  One thing that a number of people have asked has been about amonia levels.  I've not ever checked this and was wondering if it was worth doing?

Thanks

Tony

[Margaret]

Hi Tony.How long since you stopped feeding the fish? The reason I ask is that once you have rinsed out your sponges after you have stopped feeding,you should not need to do it again unless you have a lot of   bits blocking the flow.The level of activity with the bacteria will slow right down when there is no fish waste being produced.Ammonia levels are highest in the early days when you first get the filter and the fish,and too high levels are lethal to fish.But you did all the right things with the filter start.Ph.is not that important,as fish adapt.My ph is high as I have such hard water but I doubt this is the reason.You are supposed to only wash out one filter mat,or half the sponges at a time,and then alternate.Yes, leave the bottom section of your filter,this is where the really beneficial bacteria lives.Have you had any further problems,and did you check for sharp edges? I have found that the pots can sometimes split and cause very sharp edges which could cause damage.

[Anthony]

Hi Maggie, :)

I stopped feeding regularly a couple of weeks ago but I must admit that I have thrown in the odd wheatgerm stick since.  (normally when the fish have been near the top and I assumed looking for food!)  This again puzzled me because those fish in the top section happily took the food whereas those in the bottom left it and thus I fished it out!

I did check for sharp objects and the only thing I think it could be is the plastic container I use for the lilies.  I have a similar container in the top section and by law of averages if the containers where causing the injuries then some from the top would be having the same problems.

I don't think I have any more problems at present - You'll be first to know if I do!  :D  I'm still to "Attack" the Parrots Feather and was thinking of doing it this weekend!  Am I best just lopping the tops off so that it is below the water level?

thanks again

tony

[Margaret]

Hi Tony.Re the parrots feather,I would trim about halfway down the stem,otherwise it will go mad next year.You want as much of the old growth off as poss,but allowing it to regrow next spring.Did you realise that it will grow just as well completely submerged,and looks quite different under water.  I wonder,do your orfe barge the smaller fish in the bottom pond? It may be making them nervous and more liable to be forced into the rough edges of a pot.There has to be something different about the bottom section,and that is the only difference,isn't it?

[Dusty]

Hi - have just come into this message and so presumably you have both had previous conversations as Maggie you seem to know more about the fish than Anthony gives info on here.  so I am probably totally wrong but just thought I would suggest - can cats get them in the bottom section or what about those beetles that were mentioned on another message.  is there anything that the water flows over into the bottom pond ie rocks, stones that might be leeching something that does not show up in the normal water readings.  I know pet shops/acquatic shops near me will check a number of readings and perhaps they will be able to detect if there is anything in the water that the ph, nitrite, ammonia etc tests do not show up.

Failing that Anthony - I found a site, which I know Maggie has visited, they were very helpful with me and a lot of people on the site are, like Maggie, very knowlegable.  There is also a large section on diseases and a help desk.  if you have not visited before - try in your search engine KoKo's fish.

Hope you get things sorted soon.

[Anthony]

Thanks once again for the replies!  The bottom section is fed via a series of waterfalls inwhich there are  pebbles/gravel!  I did wash all of these before putting them in but I guess something could have got on there.  I think as you suggested I may just take a water sample to the local aqautics centre and see what they think!

Maggie - The Orfe although still very lively are not much bigger than the other fish so I don't think they could be shoving the others around.  As mentioned earlier I was thinking of relocating the 5 goldfish/comets from the bottom into the top with the other goldies/shubs etc.  The fish in the top seem much much happier in general :)  This however, will create the problem of only having 5 Orfe in the bottom and it looking a bit empty!  But I guess that can be addressed with a couple of additions next spring if necessary!  If you think this is a good idea you'll have to let me know what types of fish will compliment the Orfe in there!

I'm glad you told me the PF can live under the water, where it is at the moment (middle section) it attracts a lot of the dreaded blanket weed.  There isn't much cover in the bottom now that the lillies have died off and I think relocating the PF would solve 2 problems!

Forgot to ask, how is the car going?  Mine being a diesel is throwing out loads of black smoke at the moment and badly needs a service! - Will get round to it sooner or later!

thanks again

Tony

[Anthony]

Apologies dusty, I didn't answer your question either!  I have nets on both top and bottom section of the pond and doubt a cat could get in there.

I did notice a rather large beetle in there the other night but I don't think if was one of the said diving beetles (He didn't look too comfortable in/on the water)