Topic: Competition Changes -Have we gone too far?

[Garden Manager]

Can someone tell me what was wrong with a simple 'Photo of the month' competition? Nice and simple, just remember to send in your picture and vote.

Now it looks like you have to A) Work out which category your photo fits into and B) keep checking to find out when the next competition for that category is open. Then what about voting for the best/favorite photo in that category. More complications!

I think we are likely to get less members taking part under this system than the old one. most of us have busy lives and i for one have missed out on the last few months competitions due to other commitments. I think this trend might (sadly) continue, at least until I get used to the new setup or WE CHANGE BACK TO THE OLD ONE!!

I put the blame squarely at the door of our new moderator meself...... :o :P

[star]

Hi GA,

Speaking as a relative newbie here, I wasnt sure where the 'Photo of the Month' actually was. I did see the posted winners but didnt ever see the photos. I found it confusing.

On the other hand I do understand how you feel (and others who know this forum well) about changes made when you found things perfectly workable before. I also appreciate how time is a premium for lots of people with busy lives.

In defence of the 'new moderator', its very difficult to organise new sections and headings, and to ultimately please everyone all of the time.

I would think that possibly, with named sections for funny, life, scenic photos it would make accessing the catagory easier and quicker for busy people.

Would the competition catagories not be a 'sticky', easily spotted for everyone?

There will always be hiccups with changes but they can be ironed out with feedback, time and patience.

[Froglegs]

There will always be hiccups with changes but they can be ironed out with feedback, time and patience.

+ Kenkew's obvious enthusiasm to make it successful, give it a go i say.

[OllieC]

Sorry, did I miss something here? I thought there was a month long discussion, where we were all invited to get involved by posting our views and opinions before the changes were made.

I like the new layout - give it a go GA, you might just like it!

[kenkew]

Some don't want to see change, some want 'some' change and there are those who want to see it expand even further to include pure digital art-work. I'm taking on board everything said and I've no doubt there will be changes made as we move on, changes to suit the majority but also to try and cater for the smaller 'select' groups.
 Splitting what was one contest into two categories is fairer. I pointed out before, how can you compete a pic of an 'exploding volcano' with a 'furry christmas kitten'? It's really just posting your picture in the right place. I don't see that as any more confusing than it was. So if anyone wants to post just one picture, well, the opportunity is still there and photo's in that narrower category will only be competing with others that fit the category. A fairer system, I think.
 Recent past threads have actually answered many of the questions still being asked. I know most people are in favour of broadening/extending the contest and many of those unsure are at least prepared to give it time.
 
 The suggestions to date range from no change through to a possible 6 categories. I'm happy with two and eventually three for now. (and I now understand only too well Dan's reason for some assistance!)
I respect GA's comments but got a bit confused when he suggest no change but then put forward a suggestion to open the contest up to four categories. Anyway, let's walk along with this for awhile and once the lumps, bumps and hurdles have been ironed out maybe we can up the pace a bit and start 'jogging'.
Thanks, Ken.

PS: What first made me consider different categories was the August Comp. Two photo's there were vying for top slot. One was a scene shot and the other was one of a crab. To my mind both were worthy winners and both would have been had they been in their respective categories, as exists now. But because they were lumped into just the one section, we had two well supported photo's which would obviously have won in their own sections. Result? Two worthy winners, not one.

[Garden Manager]

From Kenkew: I respect GA's comments but got a bit confused when he suggest no change but then put forward a suggestion to open the contest up to four categories. Anyway, let's walk along with this for awhile and once the lumps, bumps and hurdles have been ironed out maybe we can up the pace a bit and start 'jogging'.
Thanks, Ken.

Ken I would have prefered no change or just some minor tweaking to hbe honest with you. However since change was intended, i decided to suggest some alternative categories to the ones you put forward. Apologies for any confusion.

[kenkew]

With you now, GA. Confusion gone.
Actually I pondered your suggested categories and was close to clicking the 'mod key'. The reason I didn't take it up was that I might have opened the flood-gates where everyone with a 'pet' topic would demand their own particular subject as lead.
Obviously it's a practical impossibility to have a category for every conceivable subject matter, so I've left it with those two. That's not to say that over time there won't be changes. Every comment and suggestion mentioned I have copy/pasted to read through over and over. No one more than I wants the new layout to be an acceptable one, but if it's got weaknesses I'm sure we'll find them and alter for the better.
Thanks, Ken.

[Garden Manager]

Fair enough but you could have set rules/guidelines for each of 'my' categories to make sure it suited as many people as possible. I do think they were quite broad based categories anyway so should have suited the majority.

I do now understand why you have set the categories as you have done, although i have one question: Could you clarify which category photos featuring garden veiws, allotments and general landscapes come under?

Thanks

[kenkew]

Fair enough but you could have set rules/guidelines for each of 'my' categories to make sure it suited as many people as possible. I do think they were quite broad based categories anyway so should have suited the majority.

I do now understand why you have set the categories as you have done, although i have one question: Could you clarify which category photos featuring garden veiws, allotments and general landscapes come under?

Had I have had more time, GA I would have spent some of it studying your different items per category, but to be honest I've spent my spare hours doing the best I can with the two now running.
 The favourable comments I've had regarding the 3rd one, 'Themes' tells me it's going to be quite popular, probably because it's different to anything we've done along these lines.
 The 'Life' category includes any and all living creatures, so your garden views...etc pic's would go into the 'Scenes' category.
Later on, when we all get the hang of how things run and where time allows, I will consider splitting the 'Scenes' Cat to have a dedicated one possibly 'Home Grown'. That will give the opportunity to show off there fruit, veg and flowers in a competitive way outside the Gallery board. It's maybe a little late in the season to expect a huge response to it just now but I'll be asking for suggestions about that a little further down the line...watch out for it!
Thanks, Ken.

[sarah]

can i suggest that the winner of each 'themed' comp gets to chose the theme of the next?

[Admin aka Dan]

can i suggest that the winner of each 'themed' comp gets to chose the theme of the next?

I quite like that idea!

what are your thoughts Ken?

[kenkew]

On the face of it that would seem a 'poetic' way forward...how-ever, before putting the 'Theme' content together I gave a lot of thought about it from all sorts of directions, including that one, and reckoned that might raise a problem in that the person picking the theme might also be the person with a brilliant pic already in their archives to match, or know a friend who had! I don't say that would be the case, but there could be grumblings suggesting that.

 The answer would be to exclude the suggestor, but could still raise concerns that the choice is biased. Added to that, we might get a repeat of the subject matter or close equivalent as people choose their pet subject.

 For those reasons I decided the 'Theme' should be from a permanent non-contributor who would take into account past themes with an eye on variety.

[star]

Exactly what I was going to say too KK :)

[telboy]

Dan,
Sack Kenkew & start again!

[OllieC]

That Ken bloke's clearly been giving this a lot of thought!

[SamLouise]

can i suggest that the winner of each 'themed' comp gets to chose the theme of the next?

^^ That's a great idea.  I like that  :D

[SamLouise]

Not wanting to put the cat amongst the pigeons but Ken, I can't help but feel even though you are obviously working very hard to make this work, that you're thoughts are just a tad over the top?  I think you are looking into things a little deeply that may not even arise!  I think it's a lovely idea for the winner to get to pick the theme of the next competition.  At the end of the day, it should be about enjoyment and the pleasure of photographs.  Seems a shame you are thinking of hurdles before we even get going.  Just my tuppence worth.

On the face of it that would seem a 'poetic' way forward...how-ever, before putting the 'Theme' content together I gave a lot of thought about it from all sorts of directions, including that one, and reckoned that might raise a problem in that the person picking the theme might also be the person with a brilliant pic already in their archives to match, or know a friend who had! I don't say that would be the case, but there could be grumblings suggesting that.

 The answer would be to exclude the suggestor, but could still raise concerns that the choice is biased. Added to that, we might get a repeat of the subject matter or close equivalent as people choose their pet subject.

 For those reasons I decided the 'Theme' should be from a permanent non-contributor who would take into account past themes with an eye on variety.

[kenkew]

Thanks for the input, S’blue, much appreciated.
 As has been mentioned quite a few times now, changes will happen as we progress. Nothing is for ever and all comments are read and weighed-up by those who are interested enough to open the relevant threads. I certainly take notice of them all with a view to improving things as we go along.
 If I could take your many points one at a time;

‘…..even though you are obviously working very hard to make this work, that you're thoughts are just a tad over the top?.....’

Yes, I am working quite hard to make a success of the new look and now understand a little why Dan asked for some assistance! I wasn’t, until now, aware of the amount of time involved in as ‘simple’ a task as organising a few pic’s!! How-ever, I’m not sure that my ‘thoughts’ are ‘over-the-top’. I could of course adopt more of a laid-back attitude and allow things to run in a more casual way, but that means organisation and a fair approach would be open to too much manipulation from loud voices.

'.... I think you are looking into things a little deeply that may not even arise! I think it's a lovely idea for the winner to get to pick the theme of the next competition.....’

By ‘things’ I’m presuming you mean a bit of skullduggery? I don’t think for a minute that would happen, but if the possibility doesn’t exist then it certainly won’t and no-one will have the chance to accuse or suggest it. However, the ‘idea’ is a sound one and I don’t totally rule it out. Possibly a vote on this a little further down the line would be a fair way to sort it.

‘…..At the end of the day, it should be about enjoyment and the pleasure of photographs…..’
I couldn’t agree more. Hence my reason for being involved.

‘…..Seems a shame you are thinking of hurdles before we even get going…..’

As I see it, the way to avoid hurdles is to try and anticipate their existence.
                                                       ..........
Thanks for your thoughts, SBlue, and now my first task is to get things running. Let’s give it a little time and see what happens. Comments and suggestions will no doubt be forth-coming and the obvious changes from those suggestions will happen.

Thanks for your input.
Ken.

addendum...Over the last 24 hours, and certainly within the last 3! I've been inundated with messages of support for the new look competition. They all say more or less the same thing with regard to the changes. 'Let's give it a go'..'How can changes be suggested to something that hasn't even started!'..'Let's see how it works'..and many more of the same. Thank you for for all that support, and it tells me that to run it as is, is right. For the future?...Well, this one say's it all.... 'I'm going to post a photo......my first ever- because I want to join in what looks like being an exciting competition, even if the prize is only to see my effort in there. Don't mess with it, I like it as it is.'
Ken.

[Paulines7]

Ken

I think you have done a brilliant job organizing the A4A Competition. 

I like the idea that the Competition now has it's own heading and is therefore much easier to find.  I also enjoy having several categories as it means I have more chance of winning if I enter all of them!   ;D ;D ::)   It certainly makes sense to have separate categories for scenes and life and also to have themes.  The latter I would prefer to be chosen by you as you are running the competition.  If the winner chose the next theme then they shouldn't be allowed to enter that competition as they could already have a suitable photo.   :-\

Well done Ken, I know it will be a success once people get used to it. 

[Hyacinth]

 ::) @ Ken...

Although, like others, I appreciate the work you're putting into all this, for which I add my thanks, I don't and can't buy into Conspiracy Theories and General Skullduggery and Manipulation to win and really don't like reading that you are building in safeguards to prevent the potential of these happening within our community :(......to me, simply, this suggests that you feel that you are building in safeguards against something that may, just may, happen but has not been proven to have happened yet?...but remember, Ken, any pic. which may be submitted in this way still has to stand its own equally against competition from the other entries? Logically,  It'd have to be a Blinder, wouldn't it? And therefore deserving to be a winner, whatever? So what's wrong with applauding outstanding excellence?

Dan didn't ask for verification that previously submitted  pics in the photo comp. were a) taken by the person entering them or even that b) they were actually taken during the previous month... he took people on trust... it was a system that worked.

I support the idea that the winner gets to pick the theme for the next. 8)