Topic: My goldfish have bred at last!

[gardenqueen]

I was surprised this week to find at least a dozen small fry in my pond-great! However I now have a dilemma as there are already 12 largish fish in a pond approximately 8 feet by 5 feet! Do I leave the fry. approx 2 inches long, in this pond to take their chances of survival, or buy a new pond just for them? Any advice would be appreciated please.

[silly billy]

If they are 2" long then they have done well to survive this long.How big are the other goldfish because at 2" long they could well be too big to eat now.
Also whilst its nice to have some baby fish it can be a real problem every year because of overcrowding although I never found it a problem one or two used to survive but the rest were eaten which may seem cruel but you don't want too many fish unless you can catch them and find homes for them.

[gardenqueen]

I have a golden orfe who is at least a foot long and all the other gold fish, bar one must be at least 6 to 8 inches long! One other is only 4 inches long, my neighbour found it on her patio of all places, it survived so I call it Lucky!  ;D

I suppose I could take a chance and leave them in the pond, but as they are my "first born" so to speak I am loathe to give them away.

[tim k]

hi what is the depth of your pond ?
i have worked it out at 2' deep and its 500 gallons this will easily cope with the amount of goldfish you have there
the orfe however could get to 2'+ so you may need to re-house him at some point they are also very skittish (being mosquito feeders ) so you may find him lying at the side of the pond after a thunder storm. should be OK until he is about 18"though
also what sort of filtration have you got?

hope that helps

atb

tim

[gardenqueen]

Hello Tim,

The pond is 3 feet at it's deepest.  I can't extend the pond as it is a fibreglass one purchased some 10 years ago.

I have never had any filtration system other than the pump is on all year round and in the small plastic waterfall I have watercress growing. Recently I purchased some hornwort after reading about it on this site.

When I purchsed the orfe, many years ago I was told it was a tench, hence the name of Terry the Tench!  ::) Maybe I will have to change it's name to Orville the Orfe? lol

[tim k]

may be worth buying yourself a test kit ammonia nitrite and nitrate as your fish grow you can check the levels and you would then know if you need filtration

ps i build koi ponds install water features and maintain collections have done for ten years plus so if you have any questions i would be happy to answer them

atb
tim

[Margaret]

Hiya.Water cress and hornwort are very good plants in that the former is greedy on the nitrates and the latter a  good oxygenator,though it grows very fast and needs keeping in check!

The only way you can avoid a disaster,caused by the population explosion,is to get a filter and link up the pump to it.Or you could buy an in pond filter system.I have done this in my raised pond and it really is very easy to use.It is called an easy clear pump and comes in 2 sizes,you will get it from any good aquatic online company,just google it to find the best price.It combines a pump,filter and uv bulb in one.Saves all that faffing around with external pipes too!!

[Margaret]

I don't wish to sound critical and it is obvious you love your fish,but orfe not only need a large pond,but company of their own kind,they are very nervous and unhappy when on their own.Is it possible to rehome him where there are others, so that you can just concentrate on keeping a manageable number of goldfish.

I speak from the experience of having 4 large speedy orfe,who thankfully have never bred! but have many goldfish and rudd who have grown and multiplied so much that i have built 2 large ponds after my original smaller one,in order to accomodate them.It can very quickly get out of hand!!

[tim k]

I don't wish to sound critical and it is obvious you love your fish,but orfe not only need a large pond,but company of their own kind,they are very nervous and unhappy when on their own.

Hi Margret i totally agree with that they are finicky and can be extremely nervous when the barometric pressure is hi so before during and after a thunder storm and of course high barometric pressure reduces the oxygen in a pond so they tend to jump then. But being fast and fairly agile fish they often go straight over the side! larger fish seem to jump more than the smaller ones though

atb

tim

[Margaret]

Tell me about it Tim!! I have always had a net on my pond,from the very first week of putting fish in when the herons found it!! So it has always prevented a disaster.

Except when we were building a larger deeper pond ,7 years ago.We housed the fish in our newly built raised pond,but still netted that one as the orfe were in there.When the pond was finally ready,and it took 2 attempts cos the first people were rubbish and the pond had to be redone but that is another story,we attempted to catch and transfer the orfe first. By this time the pnd had gone green and got churned up so it was more by luck than judgement that we got 3 transferred ok.

But try as we might we could not find the fourth.Next morning we had another try before taking the dog out.Knowing we would only be about half an hour or so we ledft the net off as it was such a fiddle.

Came back put the kettle on and wandered outside to see if we could spot him.yes we could spot him alright,laid very still on the ground.He had jumped from a height of over 2 feet.Obviously thought he could make his own way back.I honestly thought he wa s dead but i put him back in the water just in case and detected a very slightmovement which could have ben the water flow.

No option but to give it the kiss of life!! Well,in a fashion anyway!! but it worked.Poor thing was all bruised and red blotches were all over it.It took two hours of holding it in the fountain's bubbles to get extra oxygen,before it very slowly managed to swim away.

Within a week you couldn't tell which one it was.Thank god i went to look before we had a cuppa.I felt very guilty.

So yes they can jump!!It was just the thought of a solitary orfe,most fish do like to shoal,and also the increasing size of it,that made me feel it would be better off in a  larger pond.

[gardenqueen]

Hello Margaret and Tim,

I have taken on board everything you have said, and feel that one of the solutions is to get another larger pond for the solitary orfe and to get him/her some company of other orfe's.

I shall look into getting a test kit and get OH to look at filters!

Margaret, it was you who mentioned hornwort on here so of course I bought some!  :) It really is doing the trick of clearing the pond too!

I really am grateful for the advice you have both given.

Nettie

[Margaret]

You are very welcome Nettie.I wish there had been a board like this when i first started with my fish.It is hard to get good practical advice from people who have been there and done it,and made mistakes,of which i have made many in the past.So if i can help someone ,and their fish ,by my  past errors i am only too happy to.That is why,with the help of others when i first found the lottie site,i asked for a specific pond board and oh boy it has been well used.Unlike the BBC site which gave us a board and then took it away again.We were NOT amused!

It sounds like a good idea,getting a bigger pond.Defo been there and got the teeshirt!!Trouble is it gets expensive! i have more ponds than garden,but as i am not the worlds best gardener it suits me.I can spend hours with my sleeves rolled up,especially on a damp drizzly day.I am in my element.Beats heavy digging and muddy earth any day!

Hornwort is brill stuff.It drops to the bottom in winter and can go a bit manky.This is the best time to sort through it and get rid of any really brittle pieces.Next spring it will rise to the top and produce new shoots in earnest,so you need to be quite brutal about what you get rid of.I take out bucketfuls every year.

This is the best company i use,both for products and advice.They are just down the road from me which is very handy!

www.watergardeningdirect.com

but still worth doing a google for price comparison.They really can vary so much for pumps and filters.

[gardenqueen]

Glad you mentioned Hornwort drops to the bottom in winter, as I would have thought the fish might have eaten it! ::)

Thank you for the link, very useful.

The only place I have to erect another pond is where I have a small wildlife pond, underneath a gunnera. So it's a case of moving the wildlife pond too!

[gardenqueen]

Well OH and I have put a new pond in, and it nearly killed us doing so! Not as young as we were!  ::) Found 17 small fry so far, in the old pond, and there are still a couple of elusive ones yet to catch. I know the new pond won't sustain all the fry but we'll cross that bridge when we have to!

[Lady of the Land]

I have 2 small fish that I have recently noticed in the pond - they are black about 1 1/2" - 2" long. Could these be fry, are they normally black to start with- all the other fish are yellow, orange, 2 blue orfe and a couple which are black and orange.

[gardenqueen]

Other people on here are more of an expert than me!  ::) However as I understand it, (YES, THE FISH YOU HAVE ARE FRY!) breeders usually dispense with black ones as they are not considered to be good stock. They usually like them to be gold/yellow as soon as possible.

[Lady of the Land]

Thank You Garden Queen you have really helped me!  :D

[man of the land]

are you sure that wasn't my koi who gave birth lady of the land. i did notice about a month ago that one of them was getting fat. ;D

[gardenqueen]

I don't think I have Koi in my pond!  ::)

[silly billy]

 :o :o Keep the lil black ones they will soon change normally after reaching a certain size.