Topic: NEW holes in the ground allotment plot idea.

[JRP]

Hi ALL,may I put forward another idea of mine to do with having a allotment plot to grow things on done in a different way,which you may like to try out on a over grown allotment plot that has not been dug over for a long time.
This I'm putting forward to be used in the South East mainly where we are having less rainfall each year,and we are having a hose pipe ban imposed on us now.
What I'm suggesting is we change our normal way of growing things to fit the drought situation we are now in.,done in the simplest of ways like my container system, which I would have been doing if I had not covered my half allotment plot in unwanted wooden pallets and plastic containers to help reduce them going into  landfill sites.
Stage one,clear your allotment plot of weeds first by using a fast acting weed killer,which allows you to grow things soon after using it.
Next decide what and where you are going to grow things ,for example potatos,beans,peas,carrots,lettuces,sweetcorn.,
Now comes the different way I was going to do it,against all the so called experts advice,as I believe they have not tried it out before,which I'm sure I will now get every one talking about in a negative way at first,which I'm sure will change after trying it out to a positive one in the future.
What I propose is that we dig lots of round or square holes all over a plot of land the size we think is the best size for what we intend to grow.
This way it would mean us leaving a surface which can be walked on,remembering with the old way of growing things we nearly always leave a space in-between crops whether it's in rows or individually,leaving a lot of space that been dug over but never gets used,
My way saves all that waste of time and effort in digging over ground surface area to not be used.
The new idea part is just digging holes in a allotment plot that has not been used for a long time,or land that's not been used to grow anything in before. YES,the normal way we would grow things in the ground such as in the garden, we would dig over and over again to keep the weeds down, and to also make it look good too,followed then by planting things in holes.
My way is different you only dig a hole in the ground,thus leaving the area around it to walk on just like you would have a container standing on a patio. If you work out say what a farmer uses of his field,and what is left in-between his crops so that he can get wheels to pass by his crops without flatterning them,it works out a lot,which means he can only grow things in rows,my way works in the same way but you don't have to dig over the land first,which all allotment plot holders do exsept for me.
The end result of my idea is,a plot growing what I want to grow in holes dug out and filled with what ever surrounded by a barrier of soil which will allow any surface water to collect in it,but will not effect the water table because it will slowly drain away after feeding your crop roots first,and you can do the same thing on a slope too,done by digging channels across the slope with holes dug in them to act in the same way as a water guttering channel system does leading to a water butt,but the water butt is your crop hole,plus it will act like it does when we plant trees in the soil to hold the land in place too.
Less digging involved to make your plot have a grid like system,made up of lots of round or square holes with something growing in them.
It's just another way to grow something in a contained space which I'm offering to the world for FREE because I'm like that. John. J.R.P.

[JRP]

Hi ALL,for those who are interested in my ideas. I went on the internet and I found someone who might be able to help me to spread the word,as most of what I do involves PERMACULTURE in one way or another. He's a Mr Graham Burnett at www.spiralseed.co.uk who I sent a e-mail to the other day,I'm waiting for a reply.
I think I can now call my self an expert on Permaculture on what I've read so far,you might like to visit his site to find out more. John. J.R.P.

[glow777]

Problems I see with this are

1 the sides would fall in after a while burying the plants (especially after heavy rain)

2 being in a hole would shade the plants

3 what do you do with all the removed soil

4 all the holes would be dangerous, especially when light levels are low or plants have grown obscurring hole edges.


Just my thoughts

Ian

[JRP]

Hi ALL,thank you for showing your interest in my idea,I'm sorry if I gave you the impression that I ment leaving lots of deep hole everywhere not filled in,but I ment holes filled in with what ever which would be loose which would allow any water to enter easyer. John. J.R.P.

[Digger_07]

 ???Is this not another bed type of idea crossed in with a no dig system?

[JRP]

Hi ALL,I did get a reply from Graham Burnett,but he's extremely busy with other verious projects,and life in general,at least he took the time to reply.
For tose who are interested in my ideas I hope to be on SKY Three TV again The Secret Life of Suburbia this week or next at a different time than before 8am or 1pm. John.J.R.P.

[OliveOil]

I see where you are coming from John but the amount of energy expended to create your no water container plot is quite alot!  I have had more problems with containers than my allotment. My allotment plants i have just raked over the weeds and planted straight in - no digging. We havent had any of the rain the rest of the UK has had in the last 2 months. And when i say NO rain i mean NO rain. 3 days ago we had a pathetic sprinkle of rain which barely covered the ground i very much doubt it was 1/2 cm and within an hour the baking hot sun was up again. My allotment plants have not suffered and they havent been watered either. But my container plants are ready for the compost bin.

I am in very much agreeance with your reducing landfill policy. But i still cant get my head around your ideas.

Having previously worked in agriculture all the land is drilled, yes the tractor wheels do go over the crop yet they spring back up and crops are taken from these areas (depending on type of crop of course).

[triffid]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts John, but this idea wouldn't work for plots like mine, where the couch grass is always lurking on the edges of anything.

In a matter of weeks the 'container holes' would be criss-crossed with couch grass root and you'd be back to square one (a weed jungle). 

[Travman]

Would not the soil / sub soil depth in the area be an issue ?
Around here we have about 18" before sub soil or limestone .

If i understand you correctly you would need more depth then this for your system to work?

What about damping off/mildew issues with a possible lack of air circulation ?

Any root crops could be a nightmare to harvest ?

Goodluck if you try this method ,if you do use this system we want photos and updates of success or pitfalls (no pun intended)   ;D

But think i will stick to old fashion humus and mulches for now ;)

[JRP]

I see where you are coming from John but the amount of energy expended to create your no water container plot is quite alot!  I have had more problems with containers than my allotment. My allotment plants i have just raked over the weeds and planted straight in - no digging. We havent had any of the rain the rest of the UK has had in the last 2 months. And when i say NO rain i mean NO rain. 3 days ago we had a pathetic sprinkle of rain which barely covered the ground i very much doubt it was 1/2 cm and within an hour the baking hot sun was up again. My allotment plants have not suffered and they havent been watered either. But my container plants are ready for the compost bin.

I am in very much agreeance with your reducing landfill policy. But i still cant get my head around your ideas.

Having previously worked in agriculture all the land is drilled, yes the tractor wheels do go over the crop yet they spring back up and crops are taken from these areas (depending on type of crop of course).

Hi Olive Oil,thank you for showing your interest in my ideas,are you saying that you have not added any water to your crops in the ground for at least 2 months and they are ok,as that don't sound right to me,not unless your plot is next to a water supply in some way,as I've added water to my crops by watering can every night for 1 hour to make sure they stayed alive,even though we have had some rain,but with the sun so hot,like us they need all the help we can give them until the sun goes down,whether they are in the ground or in containers. What a shame those in your containers had to die through lack of water.
May you and yours live long and happy. John.J.R.P.

[JRP]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts John, but this idea wouldn't work for plots like mine, where the couch grass is always lurking on the edges of anything.

In a matter of weeks the 'container holes' would be criss-crossed with couch grass root and you'd be back to square one (a weed jungle). 

Hi Triffid,thank you for showing your interest in my ideas,I'm sorry my idea wouldn't work on a plot like yours because of the couch grass. Please take a look at my allotment plot on my website as I have no weed problems at all,because my plot surface is completely covered over with a layer of lots of black plastic bin liners,on top of them I've got decking made from unwanted wooden pallets,on top of them I've got over 8,000 waste plastic containers,so there's no chance of any weeds getting through,why not take a look at my website to see what I mean,the benefits might be of interest to you and others.
May you and yours live long and happy. John. J.R.P.

[JRP]

ASKING FOR HELP?
 :)Hi ALL,for those who are interesed in my ideas,I sent a e-mail to the Permaculture Council of Management UK the other day to see if they can help me to get my ideas used,and I've sent a e-mail to Sir Cliff Richard too,to see if he can help me,as he believes in tying to help others too,in his own way.
I'm waiting for a reply from both of them,I wonder if I will get a reply, as one has two people at the heart of a big organisation,and the other one is a fames person with a big heart who is in his sixtys too,like me.
 May you and yours live long and happy.  John. J.R.P. 

[OliveOil]

I see where you are coming from John but the amount of energy expended to create your no water container plot is quite alot!  I have had more problems with containers than my allotment. My allotment plants i have just raked over the weeds and planted straight in - no digging. We havent had any of the rain the rest of the UK has had in the last 2 months. And when i say NO rain i mean NO rain. 3 days ago we had a pathetic sprinkle of rain which barely covered the ground i very much doubt it was 1/2 cm and within an hour the baking hot sun was up again. My allotment plants have not suffered and they havent been watered either. But my container plants are ready for the compost bin.

I am in very much agreeance with your reducing landfill policy. But i still cant get my head around your ideas.

Having previously worked in agriculture all the land is drilled, yes the tractor wheels do go over the crop yet they spring back up and crops are taken from these areas (depending on type of crop of course).

Hi Olive Oil,thank you for showing your interest in my ideas,are you saying that you have not added any water to your crops in the ground for at least 2 months and they are ok,as that don't sound right to me,not unless your plot is next to a water supply in some way,as I've added water to my crops by watering can every night for 1 hour to make sure they stayed alive,even though we have had some rain,but with the sun so hot,like us they need all the help we can give them until the sun goes down,whether they are in the ground or in containers. What a shame those in your containers had to die through lack of water.
May you and yours live long and happy. John.J.R.P.

Hi John

No i havent watered my plot - only when i planted i watered the seedlings in.  The ones in containers didnt just die through lack of water - they were just so unhealthy and unhappy looking and it seemed a constant battle to give them the right amount of water twice a day... which at the end of it was a waste of water and seeds and time.  The only water supply we have is a stream approx 3/4 mile to the east of the site - whether this would affect it I'm not sure.

emma

[supersprout]

No i havent watered my plot - only when i planted i watered the seedlings in

Snap, except for the sweetcorn which I have watered three times. Emma Jane was very firm on the no watering, so I threw caution to the winds, mulched like mad, and now I'm glad I took her advice. My neighbours' outdoor toms have BER, I'm sure it's because he sprinkles them erratically with the hose. Some of my lovingly watered greenhouse toms also have BER - none of the unwatered outdoor ones - so I know what I'll be doing next year (thank you EJ!)

[JRP]

CONTAINER CROPS?
Hi OliveOil again,thank you for showing your interest in the way I do things. I gather you didn't use my container system,as all the crops I've grown are OK,I've even started re-sowing in the same containers some of the Broad Beans and Peas I left on to use. May you and yours live long and happy.John.J.R.P.

[OliveOil]

No i havent watered my plot - only when i planted i watered the seedlings in

Snap, except for the sweetcorn which I have watered three times. Emma Jane was very firm on the no watering, so I threw caution to the winds, mulched like mad, and now I'm glad I took her advice. My neighbours' outdoor toms have BER, I'm sure it's because he sprinkles them erratically with the hose. Some of my lovingly watered greenhouse toms also have BER - none of the unwatered outdoor ones - so I know what I'll be doing next year (thank you EJ!)

SS - My Sweetcorn didnt get a drop of water - and get this... an average of 4 cobs per plant... some even have 5 !!! My SC towers above everyone elses down the lotty and has soooo many more cobs :)

My toms have flowered and no fruit - i guess they are ready for the compost bin too!

JRP - No i didnt do your container thing as i dont have access to all the materials - i did cut up milk containers though LOL.

[supersprout]

Well maybe I'll neglect the sweetcorn too next year OO :o although tis doing well - checked on a cob yesterday with brown tassels, and it wasn't quite ready, so I ate it raw standing in the plot in the sunshine. Bliss! (Greed!) ;D

[JRP]

 :)Hi ALL,good news I have a friend called Henry who is using my hole in the ground way of growing things on our allotment plot site now,who is trying out lots of different crops and ways to see what he can grow. I will try and get him to post on this forum topic to answer any questions you might want to ask him. John. J.R.P.

[MrsKP]

Good luck with your approaches JRP.  You have bags of enthusiam which deserves some success.

i must admit to getting a bit lost with your system when i first looked at it.  It's a radical change of direction that is easier to ignore than embrace.

But when did anything worthwhile come easy ?

I'll have another look for the spring.  I doubt if i'm going to get my lottie anytime soon and possibly not next summer either.  Thusly, I will be extremely short of space and yours could be a perfect solution.

I've got this page bookmarked so everyso often it reappears and reminds me to have another look.

 ;D




***Edit.  I've just read your hole in the ground system again I just read it as planting in pots, sunk in the ground, without the pot ?  You've got the hospitable soil within the invisable pot allowing the root system to spread and strengthen before it hits the rubbish stuff but will still allowing the roots to spread ? by not digging the whole lot over, you've still got decent hard paths to walk on. 

I woudn't see any problem first year apart from the work to design the pattern and dig the holes, you'd have to be pretty precise and design in advance , but what happens next year?  do you refill the existing holes with new compost whatever or do you dig the hard ground leaving soft areas behind ? and then you lose the benefits of the paths next year.

I have to admit that things seem to thrive in the ground for me this year whilst a bit iffy in my containers (leading me to think that their root systems in the ground had a bigger space to spread and establish) apart from one pot of parships that are growing to triffid size.

i think it could work quite well on my soil, heavy clay(i've dug in tonnes of imported soil improving matter this year - new plot y'see), no collapsing of sides, but would mean harder work getting the holes dug accurately.

over to you.

 ;D

[JRP]

 ::)Hi Mrs KP,thank you for showing your interest in my food growing ideas.
Whilst I can't predict what would happen if you used the same hole to grow what ever in,for many years now I have used the same compost in the same container and I've had no trouble in growing things,which I know goes against all what you read in books written by gardening experts,I've even got what I thought were dead coming back to life after the birds and catterpillers had eaten all the leafs,now we have had some rain. I can only refer you to my crops I've picked so far this year from my plot,and I've still got lots more to pick,some of which are second sowing of this years seeds and beans and peas. To read more could you please read my topic New Recycling Ideas I Can? Can You? ( Progress so far ).
May you and yours live long and happy. John. J.R.P.