Poll

is looting ok?

Yes
No

Author Topic: is looting ok?  (Read 7420 times)

PREMTAL

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Re: is looting ok?
« Reply #20 on: September 08, 2005, 03:01:44 »
Hi Peg,
           I like many others in the UK have been watching the reports on the devastation in New Orleans. :(

I find it difficult to believe that with all the resources that your Country has at its disposal help was not forthcoming with immediate effect. ???

I think your reasoning is spot on because one vital piece of information slipped through the information embargo. ;)

The officer in charge of the rescue helicopters was quoted as saying that his people could have been there in 6 hours but they were not allowed to go in because of red tape. >:(

And anyone with half a brain knows that the only reason George W has his troops in Iraq is because of the massive oil reserves. ::)

that's my rant over Peg. ;D

On a lighter note glad you enjoy the A4A site, since joining I don't have time for any other internet browsing.

                                                          PREMTAL :)

katynewbie

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Re: is looting ok?
« Reply #21 on: September 08, 2005, 03:33:45 »
The first pictures i saw on tv of this disaster were a large group of black people who looked as if they did not have much to lose anyway. My first thought was that Bush did not care cos they would not vote for him anyway. That seemed so outrageous that I dismissed the thought from my mind.
My first thought was right.

Robert_Brenchley

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Re: is looting ok?
« Reply #22 on: September 08, 2005, 08:30:56 »
The fact that someone 'doesn't have much to lose' doesn't make them any less traumatised than the rich! I don't think the poll is really a straight yes or no question; it depends what's being taken and what the circumstances are. If someone's hungry and they steal food, or they can't get clean water so they steal bottled, or they have to break in somewhere to get medication they need, that's OK by me. But just going and stealing isn't.

redimp

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Re: is looting ok?
« Reply #23 on: September 09, 2005, 19:08:47 »
It is nice to hear a sane US voice.  I think the rest of the world was incredulous when Bush was voted back in (I was when he was voted in in the first place).  We just thought how can America not see what we see?  But then again our own PM is pretty blind in that respect.
Lotty @ Lincoln (Lat:53.24, Long:-0.52, HASL:30m)

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Robert_Brenchley

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Re: is looting ok?
« Reply #24 on: September 09, 2005, 22:54:06 »
He wasn't voted in the first time, don't forget. I couldn't believe the second either. As for Blair, he took over one party then adopted the policies of the other. I left the Labour Party soon afterwards as I wasn't willing to be part of that.

Bionic Wellies

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Re: is looting ok?
« Reply #25 on: September 14, 2005, 15:03:21 »
My initial reaction is that looting is theft and therefore wrong - even if the thing being taken are to be claimed under insurance.

Having given it some more thought I still think that it is wrong but have qualified it as follows:  In the absence of food/water the looting of these things (food water) is at least understandable, but why nick a sound system (or anyting else) that isn't actually needed to survive - that is still wrong.  We are people who should have higher standards! - even animals don't get bogged down with such possessions.

-- Alan

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Pegmumm

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Re: is looting ok?
« Reply #26 on: September 15, 2005, 21:59:58 »
It's been two weeks since we lost New Orleans.
Residents are beginning to return, even though armed groups roam their neighborhoods. The rich of NO have hired private contractors, namely Blackwater who became infamous in Iraq, to patrol their businesses and property. Lots of automatic weapons are seen. The cops have begun taking away private citizens guns... which has everyone upset since it's their only defense against any further looting, rapes, etc. Some of the stories coming out are horrendous. Police deputies from the white areas are known to have stood on bridges leading from the worst flooded areas and forced black residents back into the water at gunpoint to protect their towns from those fleeing, causing more deaths. Some folks in hospitals were euthanized if the staff felt they wouldnt survive the flooding or being moved. FEMA, our national disaster relief agency, cut the communications conduits between police, firemen and rescue teams. The police had to reconnect the lines and put up armed guards to keep FEMA from doing it again. FEMA confiscated medical supplies going to hospitals, god knows what they did with them forcing hospitals to truck their supplies 150 miles away so they could be brought to the hospital by helicopters which FEMA couldnt interfere with.

Many, many people were left behind to die horribly even a week after the levees were topped. When the news says the levees were breached, it's because the levee system was never finished. Bush reduced the money alloted to the Army Corp of Engineers, who has sole and total eminence over the Mississippi River and its environs, at least 80%. He knew the storm would destroy the city... he was told so a few days prior to landfall. We have photos of him being briefed in Crawford, Tx. Most of the National Guard that would have taken the edge off the suffering, as well as the high water machinery that should have stayed locally, is and are now in Iraq. Any defense that New Orleans and environs had was gutted prior to the storm. There are some who say  that someone dynamited the levee on the poor side to save their own property and used too much dynamite according to someone living nearby.

  The stories of looting were exaggerated, God knows why. There were thousands who helped each other survive, to evacuate safely and to find food, water however they could. If a white was seen stealing from a store, it was "finding" and they were allowed to go on their way. If it was a black, it was "looting" and in many instances they were shot and killed on the spot. White armed militias roamed the "projects" (read black enclaves) murdering whomever they saw. I am of the opinion the bodies left to rot on the streets were murdered and the govt is waiting to collect them til after they are beyond recognition to avoid wide spread discontent (read rioting). Two weeks... and there have only been 700 bodies collected of hundreds.

Among the refugees, many are dying from the stress of the evacuation. 54 have died in Houston alone. We will never know how many casualties there were during the flooding or thereafter. Just as body counts arent kept of those who have died in Iraq, the govt won't be counting these either.

In my honest opinion I think federal officials were deliberately sabotaging any attempts by state and local officials to save their people. Cheney (our vice president) demanded that electrical companies repair the feeder lines to the oil and gas pipelines before they repair those going to hospitals or pumps. It's a good bet the fact that both the mayor and governor were Democrats had more to do with their being ignored than anyone is comfortable with. Originally right after the Republicans took control of the Senate and Congress, any money going to a Democratic district was cut. That included flood control, evacuation plans, emergency monies, etc.  And now the vultures are circling and trying to buy up any and all property in the flooded areas. Insurance companies are considering not paying out since the flooding was manmade and not an act of God.

 It's really freaking depressing... and it's the country I immigrated to and am now considering leaving. The 24th we are planning mass demonstrations across the country that I will also be participating in. America has become a blot on the planet and we intend to take our country back...

Beyond that, the garden is winding down.
And I am looking at my winter garden and thinking of what to do next.
Ahhh decisions, decisions.
Peg

Svea

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Re: is looting ok?
« Reply #27 on: September 15, 2005, 22:21:46 »
i have an inside contact in NO - a man who helped his elderly neighbours who were totally ignored by police/rescuers - he waded through chest deep water to bring water and food. as a thanks, the police kicked in his front door, and looters stole everything he owned - well almost everything. he was close to the french quarter though and networked with friends. he managed to save his carpenter's tools and they are back in NO after a brief stint in baton rouge, to start fixing up the place. it's very bad there, he says. there is a 6pm curfew, and they are working in safety by numbers. i.e. the guys dont go around on their own.

i cant say anymore about the whole sad affair because i would probably cry. good to hear that some grass roots politics are being reawakened by this though - it is sad but good also that this will finally mobilise people into looking at what the government is doing in and to their country!
Gardening in SE17 since 2005 ;)

Robert_Brenchley

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Re: is looting ok?
« Reply #28 on: September 15, 2005, 23:17:29 »
NO was set up for it, probably by the damned arrogance of politicians who thought they could get away with it for their term of office.

PS I mean damned in the full original meaning of the word.

Bionic Wellies

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Re: is looting ok?
« Reply #29 on: September 16, 2005, 07:36:53 »
Its strange isn't it, that at the same time as there are folk to show so much compassion and love for their neighbours (regardless of race, religion, age or sex) there are others who debase themselves so thoroughly - and I don't necessarily mean looters!

On the one hand I am saddened to witness the things these excuses for civilised citizens get up to but am heartened to see the expressions of love that complete strangers have for one another - there really is hope for us all - but I doubt if its going to come from a politician.

-- Alan
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