Topic: who is organic.

[londonfarming]

no organic honey in uk?

[tim]

Here's one for the books?

Asked why the grower of organic tomatoes, offered at Farmers' Markets, didn't push the organic bit.

I quote - "We have been asked by environmental health/trading standards to over-wrap punnets or vines that are organic on the stall to isolate them from the non-organic tomatoes". Of course, he doesn't!!

With RED TAPE??

[Justy]

 ::)

[giantseye]

I'm proud to say that I'm totally organic.

There have been times were I have thought about using weed killer, but I have stopped myselfusing it.

There have been times when I've thought about pesticides, especially when the caterpilars have been eating my cabbages and cauliflowers.  but again I haven't.

...And it feels really good!!!

[daveandtara]

since we are growing veg to protect our kids from the practices of intensive farming, we are not using chemicals on our plot. however,
we are unclear as to whether the seeds we buy have been modified and we have no say in whether our neighbours spray their crops and so contaminate ours.
our allotments back onto aindustrial estate and the new thames bridge is being built beside us so how organic we can be with that level of pollution is yet to be seen!
still, we do our best in a naive, newbie kind of way. we've built a frog pond to combat slugs, planted native wildflowers to encourage bees and will be asking you londonfarming for advice as we go along! ;D

[Mubgrub]

however,
we are unclear as to whether the seeds we buy have been modified

Try these, good stuff. ;D

http://www.realseeds.co.uk/

[tim]

I'm not at all clear on the comparative dangers of GM foods & Pesticides.

Is not the danger of GM that the foods can be weedkilled without harm to the crop - or somesuch??

[Icyberjunkie]

Tim,  you're not quite right although that could be one use.  The fear with GM is that you are adding genes to a plant that would not normally be found in the plant world. As a result there could be effects on us or the environment that until done cannot be identified or quantified and if long term that could take years or decades by which time it is to late.

eg you could take a toxin from a bacteria or insect and add that gene to a plant to make the plant toxic to pests.   It could then be toxic to us as well.  Or to take your example the plant through being resistant becomes a pest itself or toxic to beneficial insects - or, even worse passes the gene onto weeds through natural cross fertilisation!

This differentiaties GM from crossbreeding.

Iain

[daveandtara]

WOW! THANKS MUBGRUB!! ;D
we've already chosen next years peppers and we're gonna choose some real olde worldy beans next (i want some where the beans inside are bright red like i remember) fab sight thanks for that! ;D ;D ;D

[Mubgrub]

Dave and Tara: The 'mystery mix' of summer squash is fun, I keep rushing up to the lottie to see if any of the fruit have set and I can tell what they are yet!  ;D

[londonfarming]

since we are growing veg to protect our kids from the practices of intensive farming, we are not using chemicals on our plot. however,
we are unclear as to whether the seeds we buy have been modified.,,,, its best to buy organic seed,available everywhere in london.or raise your own.
 and we have no say in whether our neighbours spray their crops and so contaminate ours..... with time,you meet and you offer them a solution, meanwhile surrounder yourself with blackberries
our allotments back onto aindustrial estate and the new thames bridge is being built beside us so how organic we can be with that level of pollution is yet to be seen!.. we will see/test/
 , we do our best in a naive, newbie kind of way. we've built a frog pond to combat slugs, planted native wildflowers to encourage bees and will be asking you londonfarming for advice as we go along! ;D

thank you, by the way how big is your plot?.soil?water? tree?

[londonfarming]

Tim,  you're not quite right although that could be one use.  The fear with GM is that you are adding genes to a plant that would not normally be found in the plant world. As a result there could be effects on us or the environment that until done cannot be identified or quantified and if long term that could take years or decades by which time it is to late.

eg you could take a toxin from a bacteria or insect and add that gene to a plant to make the plant toxic to pests.   It could then be toxic to us as well.  Or to take your example the plant through being resistant becomes a pest itself or toxic to beneficial insects - or, even worse passes the gene onto weeds through natural cross fertilisation!

This differentiaties GM from crossbreeding.

Iain

thank you,its the first time that i can undestand what GM is really....

[londonfarming]

I'm proud to say that I'm totally organic.

There have been times were I have thought about using weed killer, but I have stopped myselfusing it.

There have been times when I've thought about pesticides, especially when the caterpilars have been eating my cabbages and cauliflowers.  but again I haven't.

...And it feels really good!!!

hip,hip,hip,hourra. you made me feel really good,thank you.[ do you use tape water? its just a curious question], the other one is,what do you do with the snail and slugs?.im looking for a duck farmer myself.

[Merry Tiller]

In answer to the original post, no one is totally organic, in it's purest sense. If one single tool, seed or plant has been produced using electricity or transported in a vehicle which uses an internal combustion engine then the "organic" claim is not appropriate.
In fact define "organic" if you can, even the use of horse manure can be construed as unnatural.
For the record I try to grow my stuff without resorting to chemicals, sometimes I find it necessary to use a naturally derived chemical and in extreme cases I will use an inorganic chemical spray, hey, we all have to die some day.

[londonfarming]

response to the last post;
the question wasnt what is organic?
but who is ,and who is working toward it.{SA as a guide line}

[daveandtara]

hi londonfarming!
we are planting blackberries... to stop the vandals, nothing (legal) is as painful as a good bramble ;D
do they also help with contaminants then? ???
our little plot is 60 feet x 30 feet. we have no trees and the soil is very heavy clay. we are in abbey wood, an area of reclaimed marshland which is why we made a pond/bog before even planting anything. lucky for us there is tap water on site, actually, the tap is on our own plot. our neighbours don't speak english (none of them)but appear quite smiley ??? we hope to get a water butt, but they get tampered with. some have been poisened :o
we suspect that the different nationalities are fighting each other, fire bombing sheds etc and so far no-one has bothered us but till we're sure we'll keep using the tap ;D

[daveandtara]

just read my last message, i made my little plot sound awful :'(
now i feel strangely disloyal. we love our plot, it's our two fingers up at intensive farming. i love the way my two year old keeps "planting" buttons, coins pen lids etc and one day, probably next spring, our plot will be breathtakingly beautiful and filled to capacity with crops ;D
feel better now ::)

[londonfarming]

how big is the full aera.?

[daveandtara]

well, ours is a half plot, full plots being 120x30 feet, and i would guess that there are around 60 ish full plots on the site. mind you, i'm pretty rubbish at this sort of thing :-[

[philcooper]

I think this thread is now becoming circular

There is a list of some 70 'organic' gardeners who discuss organic gardening issues - without 'deep and meaningful' discussions about what is and isn't organic or who is more organic than who (with never a mention of tape water)

It is not about commercial certification but is for the sort of gardeners on this list - if you want to know more send me a pm

Phil