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Allotment Stuff => The Basics => Topic started by: Daipie on August 12, 2010, 14:58:39

Title: Ein Breuddwyd (welsh for 'our dream')
Post by: Daipie on August 12, 2010, 14:58:39
First post and didnt even know where to post this. I am very sorry.

Me and my fiance have just bought our first house together in a beautiful part of the country in Kidwelly and are moving in straight after we come back from our honeymoon in September. One of the main reasons for buying the property we have is the garden that goes along with it. Its a whooping 55 meters long with a further 20 meter allotment just across the lane which is ours too. Being as self sufficient as we can is something we have talked about since we started courting and its been a dream of ours for a long while now but now we have the property and are full of excitement we dont know where to start. I am not going to come on here and ask for advice as I know regular forum users do not like a vague explanation and would rather deal with specifics and I have researched the areas of interest to us but if you know of any sites that maybe of use to us then that would be greatly appreciated. We have lots of plans for the place (some of them well be pie in the sky but our dreams have brought us this far so why not dream hey) including, keeping chickens and ducks (for eggs (we couldn't possibly ever think about killing them for meat)), vegetable and fruit growing, bee keeping, a herb garden and obviously somewhere for us humans to sit and enjoy the garden. I haven't read anything that would negate any of these possibilities but perhaps someone out there can see the glaring error in my plan.

The plan will be to complete each segment as we go along and I will be asking for advice on more specific topics as things progress but at the moment I am asking simply this, what should go where? the garden is 4m x 55m and the allotment at the bottom is 4m x 20m. Is there something startlingly obvious I am missing? I am sorry if I am being very vague and please be kind with your responses. I am very new to all this, a guy with a starry eyed dream!
 ;D
Title: Re: Ein Breuddwyd (welsh for 'our dream')
Post by: GrannieAnnie on August 12, 2010, 15:25:37
Welcome to our addiction! And congratulations on the upcoming wedding and planning before jumping into gardening like some of us have done. I'll be interested to hear people's ideas but thought I'd refer you to one of the member's excellent videos by allaboutliverpool of all his garden work- the most organized plot I've ever seen and super productive. He has many good ideas to copy. I don't believe he has livestock though.

We'll be excited to hear how yours develops and hope you post LOTS of photos. We all get many ideas from each other, maybe too many some spouses would say ;D all the while gorging on our raspberries and tomatoes of course!

http://www.allaboutliverpool.com/allaboutallotments_Vegetables_squash_butternut.html (http://www.allaboutliverpool.com/allaboutallotments_Vegetables_squash_butternut.html)
Title: Re: Ein Breuddwyd (welsh for 'our dream')
Post by: pigeonseed on August 12, 2010, 15:27:26
Welcome Daipie.

OMG You're so lucky!!! How exciting. As grannieA says - can you post pictures?

If you're cultivating a segment at a time, you might just need to work out how much you can clear now, which can take some winter crops. Then you clear more over winter ready for spring crops, and then summer planting.

At some point you will want to have a crop rotation plan. There are threads on the forum on that, as well as stuff in books and on the internet.

How long have you got before you have to be self-sufficient, income-wise?
My allotment contributes to keeping us, but I also work, so it's not so dire if I plant the wrong thing or it's slow to take off.

I haven't ever kept animals, but there is a board for that - I think several people on here know something about it and can advise you on what to do when.


I am green with envy!
Title: Re: Ein Breuddwyd (welsh for 'our dream')
Post by: irnhed on August 12, 2010, 15:33:19
Croeso!

I'm a Welsh 'ex-pat' living in the lovely West Midlands.

Sounds wonderful mate - a lovely blank canvas to work on.

Only advice that I'd give at this stage, is spend as much time thinking & planning as possible.

If possible, I'd suggest spending 12 months in the house first, so that you get a feel for the weather conditions / aspects of the gardens / winter flooding etc.   -  but there is no way that you're going to do that  :)

If I were you, I'd:

1.  Write a comprehensive list of thing that you want to do

2.  Prioritise the list, by how much you want them

3.  Then, put them in the order that you want to achieve them

4.  Record the timing of when things need to happen.  For example, if you start with bees, you'll be looking at getting a colony around May / June time.  You can therefore research, and get yourself booked on a course before then.  

Another example would be fruit trees.  If you're planting bare-rooted ones, you'll be looking at putting them in when they're dormant over the late Autumn / Winter.

5.  Think about any practicalities of day-to-day use, like water supply.  If you've got to fill watering cans from outside the house, then schlep them 55m to your carrots, you'll soon get tired of it.

6.  Measure the site(s), recording the aspects and, look at the gradient of the land - so you can work out where the water will flow in the lovely Welsh Winter

7.  Do everything, and move everything just once.  By that, if you have to move something, like a bunch of rocks, think carefully about where they need to go, and why.  You don't want to shift something into a 'temporary' location, only to have to move it 6 months later when you start digging the pond

8.  Enjoy every minute of the adventure

Armed with all of that, you can plan what to do when, where.  Speaking for myself, if I didn't take that approach I'd get waaay to carried away with doing too much at a time.

(Can you tell that I'm a Project Manager in the 'real world')?

Best of luck.  Look forward to hearing all about it.

Cheers,
            Rob.
Title: Re: Ein Breuddwyd (welsh for 'our dream')
Post by: Kepouros on August 12, 2010, 16:51:58
Get a large scale Ordnance map, and check the precise height above sea level, and have several soil samples tested.  This may save you a lot of time trying to grow things which simply won`t grow in your soil or your situation and give you a much better idea of what will thrive.
Title: Re: Ein Breuddwyd (welsh for 'our dream')
Post by: small on August 12, 2010, 18:13:15
Welcome from another expat, though I'm from the North end.  Regarding what to grow in your garden or on your plot, is your allotment one of many, or simply an extra bit of garden..........is it secure, from people or animals.......are there any trees in your garden which might shade it.....
There is a huge amount of expertise on this forum, stay with it, and enjoy what sounds like a wonderful future.
Title: Re: Ein Breuddwyd (welsh for 'our dream')
Post by: GrannieAnnie on August 12, 2010, 20:40:51
You may be growing mainly for productivity but go for
pretty as well since you'll look out on it even in bad weather.
Nice to have the "bones" of the garden pleasing.
 
Very late I learned how visually wonderful arbors are in a flat garden and would
recommend putting in as many as you can manage amongst the paths.
Title: Re: Ein Breuddwyd (welsh for 'our dream')
Post by: Digeroo on August 12, 2010, 22:14:45
Welcome  Daipie you seem to have lots of dreams.

I like my herbs close to the kitchen so I can just nip out in the middle of cooking to pick them.   With all your plans I think that you will be surprised just how fast the space available will be used up.   I think you will also find that time also becomes an issue what with jobs and social life to fit in as well. 

I grow lots of veg and I hope that you enjoy your gardening as much as I do mine.



 




Title: Re: Ein Breuddwyd (welsh for 'our dream')
Post by: GrannieAnnie on August 12, 2010, 23:28:57
Did the former owners say what was planted in the garden? If not it might be worthwhile seeing what comes up in the Spring before digging everywhere. You might be sitting on a goldmine of perennials  ;D
Title: Re: Ein Breuddwyd (welsh for 'our dream')
Post by: Jeannine on August 13, 2010, 06:50:38
Hi and Welcome, we are not like most forums.. so go haead and be vague, we will all enjoy helping you

The site I would send to yo to is Tee gees there are all sorts of realistic advice there.

We have folks here who are pretty good with certain veggies so take a look around and ask antything you like.

We are a very friendly lot.

Can you have animals, you said yiou wanted to be as self sufficiesnt as possible, so are you allowed eg a goat.

My husband and I were self sufficient for many years but farm animals were fine as we had 10 acres,

We did the whole thing, even making our own cheeses, canning meat and fish, growing everything ourselves, we even swapped home made preserves for fresh cows milk  to make cheeese, butter  and cream  and  we swapped cakes for honey.

We kept piglets and sheep, goats, chickens, ducks geese and even a couple of peacocks which we kept for eggs which we hatched and sold the chicks, and I used to take pigs to market and buy beef on the hoof with the money.

We loved it. the best life in the world.

XX Jeannine
Title: Re: Ein Breuddwyd (welsh for 'our dream')
Post by: Daipie on August 13, 2010, 10:09:24
Thank you so much for the kind words everyone. I went on a travel forum once and said that I was thinking of going on honeymoon to Hawaii and did anyone have any ideas were to stay or what to do. Within two minutes I had about 10 replies telling me how lazy I was and to look myself. I have stayed away from posting on forums ever since so I must say I am ever so pleased with the wonderful and helpful responses I have had here.

Perhaps I should have been a little more detailed in my post though. So I'll take it through the garden as I see it separated out and as I have said before I welcome anyone pointing out the glaring mistakes I have made here as I am completely new to all this and its still very vague but as we have said this is a plan.

The allotment.
This is possibly the most obvious section of the garden. Its 20m x 4m so there is a bit of space there to work in. We are hoping that this will serve as the vegetable garden in which we hope to grow peas, swede, broccoli, cauliflower, cabbage, leeks, onions, brussel sprouts, potatoes and runner beans. However I already have to say a great big thank you to GrannieAnnie for the link which subsequently led me to the "three sisters" or companion planting. This sort of space saving system of vegetable growing will be a massive use to us so I will now add sweetcorn to the list  :) . Obviously this is something for later discussion. I will be reading about crop rotation this weekend but that's just for my own enjoyment at the minute. One note about this section of the garden though is that this is where we would also eventually like to place our bee hive. This is my first dilemma. Is this the correct place for a hive? I haven't looked closely into the bee keeping side of things (This is one of Sian's ideas and therefore it is her baby to see through (in fairness to her she is going on a course with the local beekeeper association) but initially when it come to setting everything out in a plan I will need to know where best to put it.

Section one and the furthest reaches of the garden. The chickens and ducks.
This section will be 10m x 4m and if this is only for the animals its more than enough room for the amounts of animals we hope to keep. Working on the premise of 1m square of run for each chicken and the fact we are only hoping to keep about 6 chickens and a couple of ducks then we should be fine in regards to space. However it is important to us to ensure that they have enough space as possible and though there seems to be a lot of info on keeping chickens there is very little on here about ducks so this will have to be researched more thoroughly closer to the time and the dimensions of the area needed may be revisited.

Section two. The fruit garden.
Again I dont know how realistic we are being in regards to this but ideally we would like to grow a wide range of berries (strawberries, blackberries, raspberries, etc etc) as well as apple and pear trees. We were thinking of allocating around 15m x 4m for this section of the garden. This is the least thought about section so far but that's mainly because this will be one of the latter projects and things will inevitably change as we go on. However after seeing the video GrannyA put the link in for Sian now wants to grow melons so it looks like these will have to be accounted for too! :)

Section three. Our garden.
This is not fleshed out at all but it will be mainly made up of lawn with border flowers, a little concrete BBQ and a patio area. its going to be roughly 20m x 4m and should allow us an area for us to relax in the garden (though I dont see that happening anytime in the next 20 years :)  )

Section four. The herb garden.
Does what it says on the tin really. Nearest the house will be hopefully be a herb garden of about 10m x 4. On this we hope to grow basil, mint, garlic, peppers, coriander, sage, rosemary etc.


That's a very vague plan for what we would like to be able to do in there at the minute and we know that things will change. We will be posting a video tour through the mess that is our garden currently as soon as we get back from honeymoon so you can all see it at its worst. However once again if you see anything here that just wouldn't work then please shout as I'd rather know at this stage.
Once again thank very much for all your help so far but more importantly for your warm welcome. I feel quite at home here already. ;D
Title: Re: Ein Breuddwyd (welsh for 'our dream')
Post by: Daipie on August 13, 2010, 10:45:03
Hi and Welcome, we are not like most forums.. so go haead and be vague, we will all enjoy helping you

The site I would send to yo to is Tee gees there are all sorts of realistic advice there.

We have folks here who are pretty good with certain veggies so take a look around and ask antything you like.

We are a very friendly lot.

Can you have animals, you said yiou wanted to be as self sufficiesnt as possible, so are you allowed eg a goat.

My husband and I were self sufficient for many years but farm animals were fine as we had 10 acres,

We did the whole thing, even making our own cheeses, canning meat and fish, growing everything ourselves, we even swapped home made preserves for fresh cows milk  to make cheeese, butter  and cream  and  we swapped cakes for honey.

We kept piglets and sheep, goats, chickens, ducks geese and even a couple of peacocks which we kept for eggs which we hatched and sold the chicks, and I used to take pigs to market and buy beef on the hoof with the money.

We loved it. the best life in the world.

XX Jeannine

Maybe in the future we will buy some extra land and progress to goats etc but there is no way we could rear anything for slaughter. Not that we don't eat meat but I know we would get too attached to the animals to ever see them on our plates. I am not judging anyone as I would be devastated not to have roast lamb with my sunday dinner, just saying what works for us.
Title: Re: Ein Breuddwyd (welsh for 'our dream')
Post by: Spudbash on August 13, 2010, 12:40:21
Hello Daipie, what an adventure you have before you!  :)

You've got some great advice here, from gardeners with more experience and expertise than me. I would just add a few ideas so you can be planning and planting your fruit this autumn and winter - hope you don't get information overload!  ;D

Since your fruit-growing space is quite limited, I suggest you grow apple cordons: the initial outlay should be reasonably cheap, the pruning is quite straightforward and you can grow a large range of varieties for cropping at different times in a small space. Get to lots of Apple Day-type events this autumn to taste varieties you may want to grow - a balance of cookers and eaters. Cordons can be grown at a 45 degree angle facing the sun, which allows them to grow taller but at a pickable height.

You'll find raspberries (summer or autumn ones) give an early return, while you wait for the top fruit (ie tree fruit) trees to mature; redcurrants and gooseberries crop at quite a young age, too. Some varieties are tolerant of shade, eg I grow my raspberries about 3 metres from an oak tree. Others, by contrast, need lots of sunshine.

When you're thinking about choice of fruit crops, think about if/when you plan to take an annual holiday - you wouldn't want to miss a huge plum crop because you're eating chips in Skegness, that fortnight!  ;D

I know very little about bees, except that hives are often sited in orchards, where they help with pollination.

Keep in mind that every growing season is different, with its own challenges and unexpected bonuses. Just go with the flow, because our plans never come to fruition precisely as we'd visualised them.

A final word: Keep a record of which varieties you've planted and where because you can be sure that labels will get lost, sooner or later.

May all your weeds be little ones!  ;D
Title: Re: Ein Breuddwyd (welsh for 'our dream')
Post by: GrannieAnnie on August 13, 2010, 14:20:09
My one concern about The Three Sisters, and why I don't use that method anymore but perhaps someone on the forum can explain otherwise, is that for me, picking the beans without stepping on squash vines was too difficult. If you are only planting for the dry bean seeds, that would be okay, but if you're planting to pick green runner beans daily, it would be a royal pain.

I grow Violette (purple) runner beans because they can tolerate part shade and produce earlier than green ones. I grow them up horizontal wires which are easier to pick. "Goodlife" in the UK  is also growing them and it is her favorite.

Title: Re: Ein Breuddwyd (welsh for 'our dream')
Post by: 1066 on August 13, 2010, 14:27:58
well wow what a project you have there! And I wish you loads of success.

A couple of things to add to the pot -
what is your budget? For equipment, mower, shed, greenhouse etc - loads of things can be got off freecycle and the likes. I think I'd try and get an idea of what you want and need and some rough costs

I'd also check out the prevailing winds and think about shelter for tender stuff likes sedlings- maybe your fruit bushes would help there?

And GrannyAnnie's point about Arbors and benches is spot on - you need somewhere to sit and relax, think a little, and day dream some more  :)

oh - and loads of photos!!

1066  :)
Title: Re: Ein Breuddwyd (welsh for 'our dream')
Post by: Old bird on August 13, 2010, 14:47:00
Sounds like you have a lot of advice here - good luck with the wedding and all and take a chunk at a time otherwise you will run yourselves ragged and not enjoy it all.

An element to remember is where the prevailing winds come from and directional ie N S East & West!  Most of us would love what you sound to have bought so good luck with it!

Old Bird
Title: Re: Ein Breuddwyd (welsh for 'our dream')
Post by: Jeannine on August 15, 2010, 02:11:51
A bot of advice about your fruit. If you are short on space, to decide on what to grow I would choose the sort tnqat is difficult to find in the shops without need in a a mortgage ..eg raspberries foe sure, blueberries to, but not blackberries as there are so many in the wild.

For fruit trees I would go for an apricot if you can give it some protection and possibly a peach.Then maybe a plum. The peach and apricot you could espalier along a wall then drip some protection over it, it would take up very little space and there is no shop sub for fresh peaches. If going for apples or pears then I agree that step overs or cordons would be my first choice.

I can help you when you come to your corn, beans and squash next year and give you lot of fors and against the three sisters method. It is a good idea but  it does have to be given the space it needs.

WE are not really a forum, we are family on the net!!

I really envy you.

XX Jeannine

PS I love Khaki Campbell ducks for eggs and they are smshing slug catchers.
Title: Re: Ein Breuddwyd (welsh for 'our dream')
Post by: pigeonseed on August 15, 2010, 20:48:14
Quote
Within two minutes I had about 10 replies telling me how lazy I was and to look myself.
Oh that made me laugh - what a strange thing to say to you! What did they think a forum is for? Honestly some people are so grumpy they shouldn't be allowed online!  ;D

It sounds gorgeous, you're going to have a great time.

And Jeannine - I didn't know all that about you! That sounds amazingly well-organised! How do you deal with your small plot at your new allotments in the park - don't you get the urge to herd goats across it sometimes?
Title: Re: Ein Breuddwyd (welsh for 'our dream')
Post by: Jeannine on August 15, 2010, 21:29:37
All the blooming time... it is so frustrating and so alien to me...ggrrhh
Title: Re: Ein Breuddwyd (welsh for 'our dream')
Post by: Jayb on August 15, 2010, 21:59:58
Croeso Cynnes Cymreig

Congratulations on your forthcoming wedding and garden! All sounds super, not a dream for much longer  ;D
A beautiful area and have always loved the castle, lucky you  :)
Title: Re: Ein Breuddwyd (welsh for 'our dream')
Post by: Sinbad7 on August 15, 2010, 23:41:25
Welcome Daipie and congratulations on being able to follow your dream  I am sure many of us would like to be able to do what you are about to venture on.  So hope you keep us informed of your progress so we can all share your dream too, it has to be the next best thing.

I know you'll get loads of help and advice from this great bunch on A4A.

Good luck

Sinbad
Title: Re: Ein Breuddwyd (welsh for 'our dream')
Post by: artichoke on August 20, 2010, 08:59:48
I also, in an earlier life, had cow, pigs, geese, heavy horses, sheep and vegetable gardens etc - on a small scale, but I made butter and cottage/cream cheese and yoghurt, cooked the less popular bits of pig and so on. I found John Seymour very practical and helpful (though he does make things sound too easy sometimes....)

I had his paperback in the seventies, beautifully illustrated by his wife. All his books now seem to be glossy new editions, but I really liked the old paperback. If you can find it (that is, if you don't know it already), it is really useful and reassuring and practical. You can find all his other books on Amazon and similar.

One thing he recommended that I never managed to do, because our pigs were imprisoned in concrete pens (not my idea....) was to run pigs on bits of land you wanted cleared and manured. If you've seen pigs kept outside in small grassy areas, you can see what he means: instant mud patch, heavily manured, all weeds rooted out by their amazingly strong snouts. Obviously you need really strong fencing that is also moveable.

My daughter put a pig on her garden to clear it, with flimsy fencing - she should have known better, being brought up with them. The pig pushed it over one night and disappeared for ever.....

Title: Re: Ein Breuddwyd (welsh for 'our dream')
Post by: artichoke on August 20, 2010, 09:45:41
I've got the original book title now: "Self-sufficiency: the science and art of producing and preserving your own food" by John and Sally Seymour, 1973.
Title: Re: Ein Breuddwyd (welsh for 'our dream')
Post by: small on August 20, 2010, 18:11:49
We kept pigs the Seymour way, that book was invaluable to us, in fact it was when a colleague lent it to OH that we decided to move and 'smallhold'........I still reread it with pleasure although we now only have vegetables...and yes, the illustrations are wonderful.  If you can get a copy, Daipie, it'll see you through the long winter evenings!
Title: Re: Ein Breuddwyd (welsh for 'our dream')
Post by: Digeroo on August 20, 2010, 18:49:01
I would not take too long to think about planting fruit because it takes several years to  get a decent crop and so the sooner you get them started the sooner you will get a crop.  Strawberries are good, you get a small crop the first year and they taste so much better than bought ones.  Some of the supermarket sell fruit trees very cheaply if you are on a tight budget.

Three sisters is a bit of an issue. The original system was designed for leaving them be and harvesting them all in one go in the autumn.  So adapting it to sweetcorn and green beans present problem.  This is the first time in four years that I have not done one due to a problem with manure.  I have found that planting the squashes down the sides worked better for me.  They soon spread.  I only plant beans on the outside corns and make sure they stay with the same plant, it becomes something of a nightmare when the beans twine round all over the place.  Also do not choose a particularly heavy bean since they can pull the corn down.  My stands of corn are not so deep that I can not reach into the middle while still standing on the edge.   The squashes did very well indeed but I am not convinced that it was the best option for the corn.

I planted dwarf beans down the edges of the carrot rows and found this most satisfacrtory by removing the line of carrots closest to the beans first.  As the carrots were eaten the beans spread to fill the space. 
Title: Re: Ein Breuddwyd (welsh for 'our dream')
Post by: Siani on August 21, 2010, 08:44:39
Morning all.

I'm the fiancee (for a few more days) :-) We went and picked up the keys yesterday and had a wander down the garden with fresh eyes - now that we know it's ours! It's very overgrown, but there were so many bits and pieces to discover. Lots of work. Lots to clear if we want to change it around - but i'd say that a greenhouse being left behind with many bunches of grapes growing away inside made my day. Not to mention the fish pond, with fish - (i'll have to have words with my cat). And to break through the growth and spy two apple trees growing at the bottom of the garden was the icing on the cake. They need a bit of a helping hand - but they're there.

Anyway, as promised, here is the blog that we will keep updated so you can all see our progress. It'll be an added incentive to keep going knowing that you're out there waiting for the next update. We really can't wait to get on with it. We almost don't want to go away on honeymoon because we want to get stuck in - almost ;)

http://breuddwyd.blogspot.com/

Enjoy, and once again thank you for all of your wonderful advice. I've already started looking for the book you mentioned above.

Have a nice day all!

The Summers Family.
Title: Re: Ein Breuddwyd (welsh for 'our dream')
Post by: 1066 on August 21, 2010, 08:56:02
Hello Siani - and thanks for posting the link, I'll take a meander later  :)

Just to wish you all the best really, oh and have a great honeymoon  ;D
Title: Re: Ein Breuddwyd (welsh for 'our dream')
Post by: Spudbash on August 21, 2010, 18:10:09
And a wonderful wedding day!  :) :) :)
Title: Re: Ein Breuddwyd (welsh for 'our dream')
Post by: Jeannine on August 21, 2010, 18:44:54
Oh me too; I hope you have a smashing wedding

Is this our first A4A wedding?We need pictures of course.

I pray you have a long and happy life togethe, if you each put 50% in to a marruage it workd all the time.

The Summers Family, sounds real nice.

Just exactly what day is it you get married.

You have got a super spot, your description was like The Secret Garden.

XX Jeannine



Title: Re: Ein Breuddwyd (welsh for 'our dream')
Post by: pigeonseed on August 21, 2010, 21:54:56
Yes when's the big day?

I've seen the first blog post - good you remembered to take pictures straight away. It looks wonderful, you must be so excited!

Title: Re: Ein Breuddwyd (welsh for 'our dream')
Post by: 1066 on August 22, 2010, 11:15:37
I managed to have a look at the photos, and it was obviously, a while ago, a very much loved garden, so I'm sure there will be lots of finds and treasures hidden away there

1066  :)
Title: Re: Ein Breuddwyd (welsh for 'our dream')
Post by: Digeroo on August 22, 2010, 12:05:52
Welcome Siani.  Pictures look great.  Nice to have fruit crops already without having to wait years for them.  Weeds are a pain but do at least point to good fertily in the soil.  Someone used to love that garden and it will soon respond to being loved again.

Good luck with the wedding  We are all rooting for you. 



Title: Re: Ein Breuddwyd (welsh for 'our dream')
Post by: Siani on August 29, 2010, 20:23:23
(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs393.snc4/45611_423651504513_604714513_4825783_4744265_n.jpg)

And how about this for an allotment ;-) True, perhaps a little difficult to maintain.

We are currently in Hawaii (on Kauai, the Garden Isle to be exact) and the big day is on Tuesday. We are very excited - but also pining for our new house back home. So many things at once!

Also, ate Star Fruit yesterday. Yum! Doesn't taste quite the same in the UK.

Hope all of your allotments are doing well - and yourselves of course :)

From,

Siani & Daipie x
Title: Re: Ein Breuddwyd (welsh for 'our dream')
Post by: pigeonseed on August 29, 2010, 20:56:30
Hello! Good luck have a lovely day on Tuesday!
Title: Re: Ein Breuddwyd (welsh for 'our dream')
Post by: caroline7758 on August 29, 2010, 21:05:10
Have a wonderful wedding. Just looked up your new home village and it's not far from where my brother lives in Ammanford- a lovely part of the world. Looking forward to following the blog. :D
Title: Re: Ein Breuddwyd (welsh for 'our dream')
Post by: 1066 on August 30, 2010, 08:05:43
Wow What a picture!!

Thanks for the update, and hope you have a wonderful day on Tuesday  :)
Title: Re: Ein Breuddwyd (welsh for 'our dream')
Post by: GrannieAnnie on August 31, 2010, 16:36:30
Oh, it is THE DAY!  Congratulations and happy honeymoon.
Your garden pictures are exciting. It almost would be a shame to let a pig root around in it since it might pull up interesting hidden plants.  We'll look forward to more photos!
Title: Re: Ein Breuddwyd (welsh for 'our dream')
Post by: asj on August 31, 2010, 16:38:36
Wishing you every happiness for the future  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Ein Breuddwyd (welsh for 'our dream')
Post by: Siani on February 14, 2011, 18:36:21
It's taken us long enough... but we're finally making headway. Married, moved in, made it through the winter with many house-related fiascos - now it's time for the garden to receive some attention in the form of a chicken coop and a herb garden for starters. The pond and bog garden will come later. Hello again all :-)

Updated at -- http://breuddwyd.blogspot.com
Title: Re: Ein Breuddwyd (welsh for 'our dream')
Post by: GrannieAnnie on February 15, 2011, 14:33:47
Oh, it looks like a wonderful and exciting challenge! So glad you took beginning pictures and hope you continue documenting all the progress.
Title: Re: Ein Breuddwyd (welsh for 'our dream')
Post by: Jayb on February 15, 2011, 14:44:51
You both look gorgeous on your special day, beautiful pictures  ;D

Look forward to reading how you develop your garden plottie  ;D
Title: Re: Ein Breuddwyd (welsh for 'our dream')
Post by: 1066 on February 15, 2011, 17:14:02
great to see you back again, and how special to have Otter tracks !!

The herb garden plans look grand  :)
Title: Re: Ein Breuddwyd (welsh for 'our dream')
Post by: small on February 15, 2011, 18:12:20
So glad to see you back, I'd been wondering how you were getting on. All the best with your dream - lovely to be young, fit and happy with everything in front of you. Keep us posted!
Title: Re: Ein Breuddwyd (welsh for 'our dream')
Post by: bridgehouse on February 18, 2011, 13:15:06


Hello, it all sounds lovely to me .
Live your dream ,good luck.
   June.
Title: Re: Ein Breuddwyd (welsh for 'our dream')
Post by: Daipie on January 26, 2012, 11:13:53
I am slightly afraid to post on here as to what will happen next but here goes nothing. The first time I posted (Aug 2010), I spoke about buying our property and moving in shortly and the plans we had for the garden. The second time I posted (Feb 2011) I spoke about now finally having the time to start the garden and hoping to have things up and running in no time. Well, we had a little surprise later on in February. In October that little surprise decided to make an appearance and the two of us are now three of us. News of Elis George Summers arrival, when we found out in February, led to the abandonment of the garden plans and the escalation of the house improvement plans so it is with the utmost shame I come to you again to tell you that we are about to start the garden once again. I hope me posting here isn't going to lead to another delay as I don't think we are quite ready for another baby just yet. :)

So onto the garden. Its actually done us the world of good not to rush into the garden and have that time to see what happens in the garden for the whole year. I can describe it in one word. Weeds! Weeds like I have never seen before. The patio at the top of the garden was a forest of ragwort. I would say for every slab down there was at least 8 ragwort plants surrounding it. Weeds like dock leaves with white flowers fanning out across the soon to be upper vegetable patch like a climber populating a wall. Other weeds are populating the rockery area which are now dried out but sticking out for the winter. The extra allotment area behind our neighbours shed is darkened throughout the summer by the surrounding trees in an eerie twilight sort of quality and the ground is root city because of the trees.

The other annoying thing that is apparent and extremely annoying and frustrating to me is the amount of rubbish the last owners dumped in the garden. It has to be seen to be believed but it is easily 4 large skips full of items that cant be burned, reused or disposed of in any other way. Also, by my estimation, there is about 40 wheelbarrows full of coal ash which has been dumped between a wall and our shed and now has to be removed somehow.

However........... I am soooooooo excited to actually be starting. In the last 2 weeks we have disposed of around 80% of the rubbish by filling a trailer and making trip after trip to the local refuse site. I have reclaimed quite a few items from in amongst the 4 hoovers, 3 broken strimmers, large plastic toy house and burned as many of the weeds as I could find. There is a working checklist now;
build duck run
clear remaining rubbish to tip
dig veg patches and de-weed
stain the woodwork
gloss the doors and windows in the duck coop
powerwash stone work
move rocks to rockery area
repair pond
get rid of coal from side of shed
relay patio area
clean plant pots and paint up old large plant pots
repair fence panles
build new fencing.

If anyone has any ideas about the coal ash and how to get rid of it I would be eternally grateful. I have had a thought of putting it in with the hardcore when I lift and relay the patio. However I don't know what under there and if the rest of the place is anything to go by the patio is probably laid directly onto the earth which rules out getting rid of the ash that way.

What we can do with the shaded allotment is also troubling my brain so any ingenious ideas regarding that will be gratefully received. In an added bonus the area is also, we believe, the home to the local rabbit tribe.

My cauliflower seedlings are growing very well and will be ready to go down in march when hopefully the allotment area will be waiting for them. My lean to has been a god send with this endeavour as it is heated and also allows the suns rays straight through its plastic roof sheeting.

The ducks should be coming our way in April and Elis is being regaled by stories of various type of ducks already. The term brainwashed comes to mind. You will like ducks, you will like ducks, you will like ducks, you will like ducks, you will like ducks, you will like ducks, you will like ducks, you will like ducks, you will like ducks, you will like ducks, you will like ducks, you will like ducks, you will like ducks, you will like ducks, you will like ducks, you will like ducks, you will like ducks, you will like ducks, you will like ducks, you will like ducks, you will like ducks, you will like ducks, you will like ducks, you will like ducks, you will like ducks, you will like ducks, you will like ducks, you will like ducks, you will like ducks, you will like ducks, you will like ducks, you will like ducks, you will like ducks, you will like ducks, you will like ducks, you will like ducks, you will like ducks, you will like ducks, you will like ducks, you will like ducks, you will like ducks, you will like ducks, you will like ducks, you will like ducks, you will like ducks, you will like ducks, you will like ducks, you will like ducks, you will like ducks, you will like ducks, you will like ducks, you will like ducks, you will like ducks, you will like ducks, you will like ducks, you will like ducks, you will like ducks, you will like ducks, you will like ducks, you will like ducks, you will like ducks, you will like ducks, you will like ducks, you will like ducks, you will like ducks, you will like ducks.

Anyway I thought I would touch base with you all and apologise for our extended silence. I hope you are all well and hopefully this will be the first of many actual updates instead of continuous start up messages.
Title: Re: Ein Breuddwyd (welsh for 'our dream')
Post by: shirlton on January 26, 2012, 13:07:31
I missed this post first time around so its day 1 for me. Don't forget the pics will you. Congratulations on the birth of your baby.
Title: Re: Ein Breuddwyd (welsh for 'our dream')
Post by: small on January 26, 2012, 14:10:25
so glad to see you back, I had wondered what had become of the dream - well you had every excuse for hanging fire! Congratulations on your new arrival, anyway. I think you were actually lucky to have that space to see the garden through the year - it's spared you the heartache of planting in that shady spot. I don't want to sound discouraging but it's just not worth trying to grow veg in shade and dry root-filled dust (making some pessimistic assumptions there!).
As for the ash - do you have another use for that space? How urgent is it that you move it? It's not going to be good for your veg in those quantities....
I'm not being very helpful, am I, and here's another thought, in your free year did you see any foxes? They really really love ducks too....
But someone will be along with the positive stuff in a mo, and meantime enjoy, can you tell I'm just envious....
Title: Re: Ein Breuddwyd (welsh for 'our dream')
Post by: Daipie on January 26, 2012, 16:48:31
I accept the fact that growing veg in the rooty ground would be no good but I could solve this by growing in builders bags, plastic tanks etc. I was just wondering if anyone knew of anything that would grow in that half light really or whether it would be better to use the land for something else altogether. I suppose it could be used for bee keeping when we get to that stage (not something we are even contemplating this year). The coal ash may not be a problem if we can use it in the hardcore of the patio area so I am pinning me hopes on that. As for foxes, there are loads in our area but the ducks will be in a concrete coop (our converted shed) and the run will be on a concrete hardstand which will be penned in and covered with chicken wire above as well. I dont have any worries about this. When they come out they will be with us anyway so hopefully this will not be a problem.
Title: Re: Ein Breuddwyd (welsh for 'our dream')
Post by: goodlife on January 26, 2012, 17:07:29
Large containers...sacks etc. are fine for growing almost any veg..so that is no problems. But it is the amount of light that may limit what you can grow. Generally anything that are eaten as 'green' propably would be best choice..as flowering veggies will need more light.
Perharps you just have to trial and see how much you get 'away with'. Is pruning the trees a option to let more light in?
You could grow currants and gooberries in large builders sacks..they are quite adaptable for different light levels. I've seen them growing in quite shady situations in woodland edge where the seeds have been spread by the birds...and they still been quite productive. Gooseberries particularly don't have very deep root system. In a garden where I work I used gooseberries as a underplanting amongst trees. I did have to hack through some tree roots at first when planting the bushes..but bit of TLC in first year and ever since they been fine. They might not be biggest and best looking bushes but surprisingly productive for such a scrawny little things. Every autumn I pile lot of fallen leaves around those bushes to give some goodness into soil and following general organic feed in spring. That's it..they are happy little bushes and space it not wasted and produce a filling for a pie or two... ;)
Title: Re: Ein Breuddwyd (welsh for 'our dream')
Post by: Digeroo on January 26, 2012, 17:47:20
Your to do list is huge, and I suspect that with a new babe the list will get longer and some of the things will get put off. 

Do nasty chemicals leech out of coal ash?

Nice to hear how you are getting on.
Title: Re: Ein Breuddwyd (welsh for 'our dream')
Post by: Robert_Brenchley on January 26, 2012, 17:57:02
One traditional use for coal ash is path building. Chemicals probably do leach out to some extent, but we put it all on our paths in Cornwall, and it never did any discernable damage to anything.
Title: Re: Ein Breuddwyd (welsh for 'our dream')
Post by: green lily on January 26, 2012, 22:17:38
Raspberries, red and other currants will cope with a certain amount of shade. In the darkest bits I think I'd plant ferns and make a beautiful fern garden. Cyclamen like to be under deciduous trees and so do bluebells. Would it work to swap the allotment and the garden over with the veg in the garden and the decorative stuff in the shady bits? There are lots of good books etc on planting shrubs and stuff in shady areas. Best of luck and just keep strimming the weeds- mind you hens can eat a lot so long as you are fox proof- day and night. :)
Title: Re: Ein Breuddwyd (welsh for 'our dream')
Post by: rugbypost on January 26, 2012, 22:29:11
Are you from Kidwelly or did you move there. I was born in pembrey, and went  to burryport school, Joined the army in 1969 met my wife in 1974  so been living in pontypriddfor the past 38 years . My parent are both buried in ST Lltyd church in Pembrey i go down twice a year. The water in kidwelly could kill a horse its full of lime try and  water from a water barrel. As for soil we grew everything, as for manure there are more local farms than you can shake a stick at. Take your time enjoy being a family time goes quick you got a lot to do but you will get there give yourselfs colour as well as veg for on those dark days it will make you smile ;)
Title: Re: Ein Breuddwyd (welsh for 'our dream')
Post by: sunloving on January 27, 2012, 09:14:05
Hi Congratualtions on the new baby and with your new place.
We use coal ash for paths to. And raspberries dont mind and semi shaded spot and you can leave them to it with some manure.

Good luck with all the work ahead and take care of your backs.
x Sunloving
Title: Re: Ein Breuddwyd (welsh for 'our dream')
Post by: antipodes on January 27, 2012, 09:24:43
My thought was, put the ducks in the shade instead of the veg! But maybe that's not feasible.
Love the fern idea!
Saw this:
http://www.letsgogardening.co.uk/Shade_Loving_Plants.htm (http://www.letsgogardening.co.uk/Shade_Loving_Plants.htm)
A few good ideas - says Quinces grow in shade???? Why not, they make lovely jams and jellies.
Hope that you work it out, congratulations on the little one, "your dream" sounds most appropriate!
Oh yes, pics please!
Title: Re: Ein Breuddwyd (welsh for 'our dream')
Post by: pigeonseed on January 28, 2012, 19:45:42
One traditional use for coal ash is path building. Chemicals probably do leach out to some extent, but we put it all on our paths in Cornwall, and it never did any discernable damage to anything.
That's what I was going to say! When I was little our paths were cinder paths too.
Title: Re: Ein Breuddwyd (welsh for 'our dream')
Post by: Daipie on January 29, 2012, 18:10:07
The Blog has been updated with a video of how the garden is at this minute. I only wish we had filmed the garden before we started the work this winter but you can see the work that still needs to be done there. I apologise for the strong Welsh accent and the mumbling in advance and if you need a translation just let me know. So any ideas, thoughts, or weed identification then please let me know.

http://breuddwyd.blogspot.com/
Title: Re: Ein Breuddwyd (welsh for 'our dream')
Post by: green lily on January 29, 2012, 21:33:43
What a big job you've got...  :oI suggest you get all the rubbish out as soon as you can. Would it be feasible to hire a small skip and have a 'work weekend' with some friends? The rubbish makes everything depressing although you've both worked so hard already-
Then give yourself a small bitesize piece of the garden to tend and grow a crop so you feel the joy of some food you've grown.For instance Runner beans don't go in until June so you'd have a bit of time to prepare a patch. If the soil is poor how about trying nasturtiums for a bit of colour? But I'd get plenty of slug pellets- they must think they're in clover! ::) Salad of course can go in your wonderful collection of tanks/ boxes..
Well done so far and keep us posted...
Title: Re: Ein Breuddwyd (welsh for 'our dream')
Post by: Daipie on January 29, 2012, 21:50:09
The rubbish will be gone in 2 weeks. Whats left is about 10% of what was there but we run out of time that day and had to take the trailer back. We will get the trailer in two weeks and I think one more trip to the tip should be enough. We are having a working weekend with as many friends as we can that same weekend. I think we can get the garden dug over.
Title: Re: Ein Breuddwyd (welsh for 'our dream')
Post by: grawrc on January 29, 2012, 22:50:00
I was wondering who that enormous tree belongs to? It looks as though it ha been pruned before and a good crown prune would give you a lot more light.

You could build raised beds which would give you a depth of soil above any tree roots.

i was thinking about the coal dust too. I'd be afraid of it causing damp in the shed.      It might be worth rebuilding the wall - you don't want your patio suddenly collapsing into the shed!! but you might need some sort of barrier to stop baby Elis hurtling down!

By allotment do you mean veg garden or is "the allotment" an extra bit of land you rent? What is the large building you walked past to get to the allotment area - is it part of your garden?

You have clearly put in a lot of hard work already but still have loads to do. I'd agree - take it a bit at a time: somewhere to sit and relax in the summer that's safe for the baby - maybe with your plastic boxes planted up with salads, spring onions, carrots etc and a few tubs of scented flowers. Cover up what you don't have time to do - cardboard covered with manure will suppress the weeds and rot down nicely for planting. Do an area at a time so that you get the satisfaction of seeing something completed. A big job like that is daunting but your garden divides nicely into "rooms" so you can develop it that way.
Title: Re: Ein Breuddwyd (welsh for 'our dream')
Post by: Daipie on January 29, 2012, 23:09:58
I was wondering who that enormous tree belongs to? It looks as though it ha been pruned before and a good crown prune would give you a lot more light.

You could build raised beds which would give you a depth of soil above any tree roots.

i was thinking about the coal dust too. I'd be afraid of it causing damp in the shed.      It might be worth rebuilding the wall - you don't want your patio suddenly collapsing into the shed!! but you might need some sort of barrier to stop baby Elis hurtling down!

By allotment do you mean veg garden or is "the allotment" an extra bit of land you rent? What is the large building you walked past to get to the allotment area - is it part of your garden?

You have clearly put in a lot of hard work already but still have loads to do. I'd agree - take it a bit at a time: somewhere to sit and relax in the summer that's safe for the baby - maybe with your plastic boxes planted up with salads, spring onions, carrots etc and a few tubs of scented flowers. Cover up what you don't have time to do - cardboard covered with manure will suppress the weeds and rot down nicely for planting. Do an area at a time so that you get the satisfaction of seeing something completed. A big job like that is daunting but your garden divides nicely into "rooms" so you can develop it that way.
I believe the tree is owned by the farmer who has the field bordering the gardens. A lot of the problem with the tree is it is full of ivy which cuts out much of the light.

Yes by allotment I meant the veg garden but its all ours, we dont rent any extra land yet :) give us time lol. We will see how much we can get done early on but not to the detriment of the enjoyment of the task.

Totally agree about damp in the shed and the patio will have to be dealt with in terms of excavating the remaining coal ash and building the wall so there is a definite gap between the wall and the shed. The fencing on the patio is something that will be done in the next few months though. Elis may not be mobile just yet but his mother is and she is far more clumsy then he is!  ;)
Title: Re: Ein Breuddwyd (welsh for 'our dream')
Post by: goodlife on January 30, 2012, 08:42:39
I really enjoyed having a peek into your garden.. ;D Those 'containers' are good..fair size planters for many different crops...and don't hurry with getting rid of the rocks..you could used them when you re-build something..part of the wall or raise beds or..I'm sure they will come handy.
As for the 'weeds'..it was quite hard to really see what they are as the pic wasn't that close up and your hand bit shaky..if you can take photo and post that, I'm sure we can tell what you are dealing with.
Af for pruning the little apple trees amongst the 'to-be-cleared-waste'...well..they looked quite new additions to me and I would not rush to prune those now. Yes, it is good time to prune if you want to reduce, restore or remove some dead or unwanted growth..but with young trees you will be better of with summer pruning, and by just reducing the lenght of the new whippy growth. If you prune in winter, you just incourage more whippy growth.
"winter prune for new growth and summer prune to get fruiting spurs".. ;)
Was those trees at the bottom of your garden fruit trees too?
Title: Re: Ein Breuddwyd (welsh for 'our dream')
Post by: Squash64 on January 30, 2012, 08:55:50
I also missed this first time around but I've just looked at both your blogs so I think I've 'caught up' now.  :)

Firstly, congratulations on your beautiful baby - I am following his blog with interest, I love babies!

Your garden............what a lot of rubbish you inherited.   :o  It's amazing the amount of stuff people just dump and then forget about. 

It will be really nice once you've cleared it, such a lot of space to grow all your crops.
Title: Re: Ein Breuddwyd (welsh for 'our dream')
Post by: Deb P on January 30, 2012, 09:35:49
What potential you have there, love it! My tuppence worth.... the weed you show looks like comfrey to me, which is reay useful as both ground cover and can be used to make excellent plant food for any plants, I would keep it and move some clumps to the damper darker areas of the garden.
The end part of the garden looks like it has some trees planted, ? You could make an orchard there? Have a look at Monty Don's garden and how he went  about planning a garden it might give you some inspiration. I would wait and see what comes up in the spring too before making any planting decisions you can post pics on here for us to have a go at identifying stuff we love doing that!
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