Author Topic: Daubenton mystery  (Read 5215 times)

Jeannine

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Daubenton mystery
« on: May 25, 2016, 22:07:42 »
 I have just transplanted 8 Daubenton plants grown from HSL seed.

 I didn't notice when they were in the modules but when spaced out it is clear that 2 are different. 1 has a quite definite purpled shade to it's stem and the leaf edges are smooth, 1 lacks the purple color but has the smooth leaf edges, and 6 have no purple color and the leaf edges are wavy.

I was not  totaling expecting true Daubentons from this seed as I am told they never produce seed and the HSL seed is something different but I was expecting them to be the same and I was hoping for them to be perennial..

Does anyone have any idea what I should expect from this seed. I have very little space and don't want to waste it. I would rather wait and get a cutting or two from someone sent over further down the line.

If anyone can tell me more about this seed I would be grateful, I will chuck the plants if they are going to be a bed full of questionable kale.  Help!! I am very frustrated.
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winecap

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Re: Daubenton mystery
« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2016, 23:19:48 »
I wouldn't chuck it out. It may not be true to type, but it may be better. You may have the kale we've all been waiting for.
Besides that, I was interested in your descriptions, because I have about 30 kale plants on the go, started from saved seed from my chomolia - a white flowering perennial kale. They show a variety of leaf shapes from rounded to jagged edges, some green, some quite purple. Waiting to see which are perennial in habit, but hoping they turn out good.

galina

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Re: Daubenton mystery
« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2016, 23:48:18 »
I remember somebody saying that some of these HSL Daubentons turned out to be caulis.  Now that would not be such a bad thing.  Presumably the rest would be like kale and perennial.  And neither is bad.  Don't know whether you eat the cauli leaves that are next to the white cauli?  We do and they taste great.  I don't think you can lose.  We don't know what this Daubenton got crossed with, but half of it (by definition) would have Daubenton characteristics, ie longevity. 

I have a similar situation with my Grandpa Maycock's Collards, which are a mixture of all sorts of brassica, selected for longevity.  When I grow a new batch from seed, I don't know what I get.  Some are fantastic and last for 3, even 4 years.  Some are not so good, but these won't contribute to the genepool.  My GMC's are almost certainly different from what Grandpa bred in Victorian times, but the longevity he selected for is still there and will be maintained by only saving seed from 3 year old plants.

As Daubentons get larger and larger over the years without flowering, you will need the extra space that some 'lesser' types may currently be occupying.  Enjoy them as they come, they are all edible and you may well end up with your own brand of non-flowering perennial kale.  Some of them may be long lived and throw up broccoli spears year after year, now that would be fine too (this is what GMC does).

If none of them are long lasting (unlikely) that would free up growing space for some other brassica.  Go with the flow and good luck.   :wave:
« Last Edit: May 26, 2016, 23:58:15 by galina »

Jeannine

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Re: Daubenton mystery
« Reply #3 on: May 27, 2016, 01:21:15 »
Okey dokey, well you two certainly put a good case for not chucking them so I will get a wee notebook instead and start logging their progress. Thank you .

I have been net cruising a bit this morning looking for info and came across a couple of things I didn't know, maybe worth sharing for someone.

Apparently their is a Cosmic Kale which is supposed to be identical to variegated Daubenton, available as plants only. It is advertised by Territorial Seeds as a hybrid of Daubenton and something else but we have found over here often something sold as hybrid isn't so if I can get a couple of plants over the US border I may be able to clone it. And yet another  perennial one called Ramosa which was advertised in Canada.

In both cases no more till the fall..oops..autumn..but I will keep my eyes on the sites and see what comes up.

Winecap now you are interesting me by mentioning Chomolia, I am not familiar with that at all but if there is a chance it is perennial it is very interesting... Could  I tempt you with anything to share for a a few seeds  to play with please. I have a pretty good stash of stuff many not available over there. Just ask and if I haven't got and can get over here I will.

Galina, have we come full circle to cauli's LOL, you can be sure I will baby them now..oh and talking of babies I have 5  so far!!!!!..

I am totally fascinated by this perennial stuff.

Thank you both.

XX Jeannine
When God blesses you with a multitude of seeds double  the blessing by sharing your  seeds with other folks.

galina

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Re: Daubenton mystery
« Reply #4 on: May 27, 2016, 08:46:17 »
So pleased, Jeannine.   :blob7:

http://www.plugconnection.com/documents/KOSMICkale_spotlight.pdf

Here is the blurb on Kosmic kale.  Maybe should have gone on the kale page.  What the breeder's page does not say is, whether KK is perennial and does not flower.  Territorial says it is perennial.

It certainly looks just like Variegated Daubenton.   :wave:

Photo was taken a year ago, plants are twice the size after the rainy spring this year. 

galina

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Re: Daubenton mystery
« Reply #5 on: May 27, 2016, 09:08:46 »
Ramosa kale was an interesting google as well:

https://scottishforestgarden.wordpress.com/2012/10/12/daubentons-kale-growing-and-cooking/

Brassica oleracea var ramosa is stated here as the Latin name for the Daubenton Kales, ie Ramosa Kale = Daubenton kale.

Plants for a Future uses the term Ramosa Kale for a perennial and flowering kale.
http://www.pfaf.org/user/Plant.aspx?LatinName=Brassica+oleracea+ramosa




Jeannine

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Re: Daubenton mystery
« Reply #6 on: May 27, 2016, 19:49:36 »
Interesting eh!!. The Ramosa one I should be able to get when they have restocked as it is in Canada. I do buy from Territorial but they won't ship plants across the border. I do have a post office box over the other side which I can pick up from and they will ship to it. So there is a chance I may get some later
l
I have a friend who has sent me walking onions from over there last week,2 types I believe, so all my fingers are crossed that they get through, they are boxed . I have no idea what he has declared them as though.

There is a place that sells all sorts of perennial stuff that won't ship here but they are reluctant to ship to a box number..I am working on that.

When we had a holiday place over the line it was so easy, even a plant, if we shook it out of the pot, washed the roots and put it in damp paper to cross they would  let it in, supposed to be paperwork but they never bothered , I have brought transplants over and just put them in with a boquuet of flowers and they cross easy the rule is no soil, no fruit..so it is OK. Seems daft to me to do paperwork fir 2 squash plants.
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Digeroo

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Re: Daubenton mystery
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2016, 17:46:08 »
My HSL daubentons turned out to be mostly cauliflowers best tasting ever rest did not survive the winter.

My other daubentons seem to be far from perennial.  I still have a variegated plant or two but I rooted those last year.  It only seems to last a couple of years.  Lost the Taunton Deane over winter, but then it tasted awful so I do not mind.

Robert_Brenchley

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Re: Daubenton mystery
« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2016, 19:29:59 »
The HSL seed was definitely crossed. Mine were kale, but they flowered and died like any biennial brassica. It probably crossed with everything else that was flowering at the time.

Jeannine

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Re: Daubenton mystery
« Reply #9 on: June 06, 2016, 19:36:55 »
What a shame, it seems I am back to square one then.. I need somebody to send me cuttings, will swap for whatever you need and pay postage if anyone wants to have a go.

I will let these ones grow I guess but not expect anything beyond that. Reading the posts it looks like I could get pretty much anything from them though, my space is so limited that it annoys me a bit but that's life I guess.

On the bright side..my 9 star are all growing beautifully and I got a big batch of walking onions in so I am on  my way to replacing my perennial bed
When God blesses you with a multitude of seeds double  the blessing by sharing your  seeds with other folks.

 

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