Defining a maximum area for fruit and flowers

[arunginny]

Hi all

Our committee is considering defining a maximum area for the production of fruit and flower crops. I understand that Allotment legislation ( mainly the Allotment Act 1922 ) defines the use of statutory allotments as being "wholly, or mainly for the production of vegetables, fruit and flower crops for consumption or enjoyment by the tenant or his family".  There is no definition of a proportions of each.

It seems to me that it would be unfair for a committee to impose proportional limits of any crops they wish to grow provided a tenant acts within the rules of the association, and by imposing such limits that risks the "quiet enjoyment" rights of their tenancy agreement.

Does anyone have a view on this?

Cheers

[arunginny]

[Digeroo]

Taken to extreme I suppose someone could plant the whole plot with apple trees and only appear once a year to pick them. 

Is there a reason for them wanting a ruling?

 

[Silverleaf]

I've never had an allotment, but I'm absolutely against arbitrary restrictions like that. What's wrong with a plot full of nothing but soft fruit or chrysanthemums or courgettes, if it doesn't affect anyone else's plot?

[arunginny]

The basic premise is that one member of the committee believes that a minimum of 75% of the plot should be vegetables

[Silverleaf]

Taken to extreme I suppose someone could plant the whole plot with apple trees and only appear once a year to pick them. 

Is there a reason for them wanting a ruling?

I suppose that would fall under non-cultivation, if you're letting the weeds grow so they could infect other plots.

[arunginny]

No its not about  non cultivation, its about setting a maximum portion of the plot for non vegetables

[penedesenca]

I would be interested why they are considering it as a ruling. I would have thought as long as the plots are well cultivated be it fruit, flowers or veg that would be sufficient. On my old site you couldn't plant trees they had to be in pots and there was a percentage for edible crops - I think 80% but that was about the limit in regard to crops.

[Silverleaf]

The basic premise is that one member of the committee believes that a minimum of 75% of the plot should be vegetables

One problem is, how do you classify something as a "vegetable"?

You can grow dahlias to eat the tubers. Tomatoes are fruit. Rhubarb is a vegetable that's used as a fruit. If you dead-headed your runner beans so they kept producing more flowers because you think they are pretty and don't even like the beans, is that a flower or a vegetable? What about things like pansies, nasturtiums, calendula, and other edible flowers? Beans and peas are fruits.

"Vegetable" is not in any way a precise definition.

[Silverleaf]

No its not about  non cultivation, its about setting a maximum portion of the plot for non vegetables

I was meaning that if someone grew just apples and visited once a year for picking and nothing else, they'd end up being kicked off for non-cultivation because of the weeds. It wouldn't be the apples themselves that caused a problem, it would be lack of cultivation.

[arunginny]

I am of the view that provided a plot is reasonably cultivates then people should be allowed to grow whatever they like on their plot, provided its vegetables, fruit or flowers for their own 'enjoyment' and that and restrictions on that seems to be counter to the agreed purposes of allotments.

[arunginny]

I am of the view that provided a plot is reasonably cultivates then people should be allowed to grow whatever they like on their plot, provided its vegetables, fruit or flowers for their own 'enjoyment' and that and restrictions on that seems to be counter to the agreed purposes of allotments.

Agreed, that would be a cultivation issue, but if people decided to, ( taken to extremes ) grow an orchard and reasonably remove weeds is that an issue?

[johhnyco15]

i have one plot full of fruit the other for veg both kept very tidy and weed free (nearly)  other people cant even keep half tidy no matter whats in it

[Silverleaf]

I am of the view that provided a plot is reasonably cultivates then people should be allowed to grow whatever they like on their plot, provided its vegetables, fruit or flowers for their own 'enjoyment' and that and restrictions on that seems to be counter to the agreed purposes of allotments.

Agreed, that would be a cultivation issue, but if people decided to, ( taken to extremes ) grow an orchard and reasonably remove weeds is that an issue?

I don't see it as an issue at all, no. I agree that as long as the plot's cultivated properly in a way that doesn't affect other people's plots, everyone should be able to grow what they like.

[bluecar]

Hello all.

Taking things to the extreme, a plot holder could keep within the  newly agreed limits of fruit/flowers to veg and grow the allowed limit of fruit/flowers with daffodils and the veg limit totally with runner beans. Would the committee be happy with this?

Surely common sense prevails in that the plot should be cultivated and maintained to an acceptable standard. The percentage devoted to any aspect of vegetables/fruit/flowers should not be a problem unless it appears the plot holder is growing for profit.

Regards

Bluecar

[arunginny]

I am of the view that provided a plot is reasonably cultivates then people should be allowed to grow whatever they like on their plot, provided its vegetables, fruit or flowers for their own 'enjoyment' and that and restrictions on that seems to be counter to the agreed purposes of allotments.

Agreed, that would be a cultivation issue, but if people decided to, ( taken to extremes ) grow an orchard and reasonably remove weeds is that an issue?

I don't see it as an issue at all, no. I agree that as long as the plot's cultivated properly in a way that doesn't affect other people's plots, everyone should be able to grow what they like.

Thats an interesting point.....the whole discussion is centered around minimum standards of cultivation... should that be focused around ensuring one member doesn't interfere with another members plot ( ie stop weed seed heads forming ) or around maximizing production  - ie maximum removal of weeds  on a plot even if they do not interfere with another members plot?

[arunginny]

Hello all.

Taking things to the extreme, a plot holder could keep within the  newly agreed limits of fruit/flowers to veg and grow the allowed limit of fruit/flowers with daffodils and the veg limit totally with runner beans. Would the committee be happy with this?

Surely common sense prevails in that the plot should be cultivated and maintained to an acceptable standard. The percentage devoted to any aspect of vegetables/fruit/flowers should not be a problem unless it appears the plot holder is growing for profit.

Regards

Bluecar

I think my question is really whether setting any limit for fruit/flowers is legitimate at all and whether it can be justified in relation to allotment law

[Silverleaf]

I am of the view that provided a plot is reasonably cultivates then people should be allowed to grow whatever they like on their plot, provided its vegetables, fruit or flowers for their own 'enjoyment' and that and restrictions on that seems to be counter to the agreed purposes of allotments.

Agreed, that would be a cultivation issue, but if people decided to, ( taken to extremes ) grow an orchard and reasonably remove weeds is that an issue?

I don't see it as an issue at all, no. I agree that as long as the plot's cultivated properly in a way that doesn't affect other people's plots, everyone should be able to grow what they like.

Thats an interesting point.....the whole discussion is centered around minimum standards of cultivation... should that be focused around ensuring one member doesn't interfere with another members plot ( ie stop weed seed heads forming ) or around maximizing production  - ie maximum removal of weeds  on a plot even if they do not interfere with another members plot?

Personally, I think "not interfering with other plots" should be the important thing. I wouldn't care a bit if the plot next to mine was full of weeds as long as they were contained and didn't spread!

Mind you, I'm very liberal and think that about life in general. Do whatever you want as long as you don't hurt anyone else.

[Deb P]

I can't see why they would want to do this. It's going to be a minefield to calculate, especially if like me you grow fruit flowers and veg together! All it will do is lead to dispute and unrest. I agree with the earlier comments about definitions as well; do you think there are some plots on your site that would fall foul of this rule if it was implemented at the moment? Call me sceptical, but if it would not surprise me that rules get changed to help eliminate plotholders who don't conform to 'norms' on some sites.
Our site has a wonderful mix of plots: some pure fruit trees, one amazing dahlias grower (he wins prizes left right and centre), some with wildlife areas, mini ponds etcetera, it's one of the reasons I applied for a plot on that site in the first place. We have minimum cultivation requirements ( two thirds of the growing space) and restrictions on how close to boarders you can plant trees, but what you grow isn't specified thank goodness.

[Crystalmoon]

Hi there everyone on my new allotment I am only allowed to have 20% of it given over to growing fruit such as raspberries & I had to get written permission even to do this. I was told I had to remove the 2 fruit trees that were already growing on my plot, very sad to have to destroy them but I did as I was told. I am not allowed to have strawberries planted directly into the allotment soil so they can't be included in the 20% fruit ruling. I am not allowed to grow asparagus. I am not allowed to grow flowers in the allotment soil. Strawberries & flowers can be on the plot but in tubs, boxes etc. Really odd new rules that have changed so much since I gave up my old plot 4 years ago & it is the same Council   

[Crystalmoon]

Forgot to say that a lady who had a plot at my new site for many years & only grew flowers has had her plot taken away from her even though she always kept it weed free & the flowers attracted pollinators to the site. We also have very strict rules now about shed sizes & if you inherit a plot with a shed that is now deemed to be too big you have to remove it!