Topic: sweet pea rotation

[plotstoeat]

I have always changed the site for sweet peas each year on the basis that they are same as other peas. Is this strictly necessary as I would like to erect a permanent trellis for them?

[Ellen K]

I know nothing but I'd say it's OK to grow sweet peas in the same spot every year.  Rotation is for the benefit of brassicas and onions, because of club root and onion rot respectively - you don't wan them to get a hold in any part of the garden.  Or for manure applications - some plants are not so good in freshly manured ground, whereas others are very depleting so maybe you'd manure before you had them there.  But as long as you are caring for the soil, there is no reason I can think of for rotating sweet peas.

I'm happy to be corrected here.

Incidentally, you often hear it said that legumes enrich the ground by nitrogen fixation so rotating spreads the benefit.  But I've read that, when you try to measure this benefit, it is insignificant.

[daveyboi]

This grower seems to plant in same place all the time but takes special care of the soil

http://www.floretflowers.com/2014/01/growing-great-sweet-peas-part-2/

[plotstoeat]

Thanks Daveyboi and Ellen K for your useful replies on this difficult topic. I have resolved to make a permanent bed on the strength of these. I had my best ever results this year but some of the seeds didn't germinate at all.So I need to be more organized next year.

[laurieuk]

I grew my sweet peas in the same place for 20 years with no bad effect. I grew them alongside my runner beans so that I walked on the same ground without wasting a lot. I did dig in compost each winter and lime now and again. I hold many sweet pea medals so they were not bad. I have moved them now as we had to move house.

[woodypecks]

I have not heard that they should be rotated either. I just ordered my sweetpea seeds for next year....and will be sowing them into the good earth , pretty much as soon as they arrive  and before the winter weather gets going . Looking forward to next summer already ! Debbie  : )

[plotstoeat]

I grew my sweet peas in the same place for 20 years with no bad effect. I grew them alongside my runner beans so that I walked on the same ground without wasting a lot. I did dig in compost each winter and lime now and again. I hold many sweet pea medals so they were not bad. I have moved them now as we had to move house.

That's very reassuring. Thanks Laurie. Great advice from a multi medal winner! I just like the smell and look of the cut flowers!

[plotstoeat]

I have not heard that they should be rotated either. I just ordered my sweetpea seeds for next year....and will be sowing them into the good earth , pretty much as soon as they arrive  and before the winter weather gets going . Looking forward to next summer already ! Debbie  : )

Thanks Debbie. What varieties? Do you protect them? I am about four degrees North of you.

[laurieuk]

I sow my seed on October 8th so as to get a really good root system going ready to plant out in Feb/March. When I sow I only water  once then wait until they all show as they tend to damp off if too wet. I usually reckon on about 99 per/cent

Thanks Daveyboi and Ellen K for your useful replies on this difficult topic. I have resolved to make a permanent bed on the strength of these. I had my best ever results this year but some of the seeds didn't germinate at all.So I need to be more organized next year.

[Deb P]

Do you soak or chip your seeds prior to sowing Laurie?

[laurieuk]

No , I do not chip or soak sweet pea seed. I used to chip the very dark seed but that does not seem to be needed now. I sow using general purpose compost in 5 inch half pots. If you go to the bottom (older posts) on my website you will see them just after germinating. I have used root trainers since losing my garden and greenhouse etc.

[Tee Gee]

I sow my seed on October 8th so as to get a really good root system going ready to plant out in Feb/March.

Hi Laurie

Thanks for the info but can I ask you for a bit more?

After sowing where do you keep your root trainers as they germinate?

e.g. cold frame where they are protected from the worst of the winter weather, i.e where they do not become water logged.

Must they be kept frost free?


Now the 64  thousand dollar question: Planting out time????

Now as I see it February/March is OK for you down there in the garden of England but what about me up here on the roof of England?

At best (most years) I would say April / May for me, so do you think I would be better sowing say a month later than you or do think this does not really matter?


Whats on my mind your seedlings are on the go for 4-5 months whereas my lot would be 5-6 months with a similar sowing date to you.

Usually I sow mine the first week in January which sometimes I think is too late.

Add to that my greenhouse is heated around 40°F (4°C) and I don't think Sweet Peas need heat so this situation might be counter productive, I am not sure.


What I am thinking on doing this year is sowing mid to late November, putting them in the cold frame thus cutting the time they are in the root trainers.

By January ( my normal sowing time) I should see results from this early sowing and subject to what I see I can take steps to grow them as before if needs be.

Your opinion would be greatly appreciated.   Tg

ps. This year was a disaster in so much as mice got at my root trainers and ate the seeds just after germination so my plants collapsed, had the root system been a bit further on they might have survived.

[laurieuk]

Hi Tee Gee,
I did not expect to be offering you advice but here  goes.
Since we had to move from our tied house we now live in a flat so I have no greenhouse or any form of heating. I sow Oct.8th as it is then warm enough to germinate without heat. I always set a mouse trap at the same time. When they are all up I single them out into root trainers and I have a mini greenhouse where they stay until planting time. I keep them as cold as possible, provided the roots do not freeze the plants are perfectly hardy. I plant as soon as the soil can be worked in Feb/March. I usually pick the first bunch in Chelsea Week May the 23/4/5. 8 years ago our son decided to get married on August 7th and wanted my wife to do all the flowers mainly using certain colours of sweet peas, this meant a lot of layering but we did it.
I cannot give dates for other regions as most of my gardening life (63 years) has been in this area. 

[Tee Gee]

did not expect to be offering you advice but here  goes

As they say Laurie none of us are to old to learn!

Thanks for your info.

As I see it you more or less have confirmed my thoughts plus a bit more, and that is thinning them out into root trainers, never thought of that.

Usually my seedlings are sown singly so I have never had the need to thin out, but I think I will give that a go  but I will sow five or six weeks later to cater for our different locations.



Do you save your own saved seed or do you buy in your seed?

If you buy them in who do get them from and are you a mixture man or a individual variety man?

I tend to just go for scented mixtures now because all I want is the scent and the colours, show quality is not a big issue with me now.

Having said that I still like long stems but  that I think you will agree
 is more down to the grower than the variety in most cases.

Once again thanks for the info.....Tg

[laurieuk]

You really have caught me on the change, up until this year I have always bought new seed. I used to get them from a chap in Ireland where you could buy each seed rather then a packet but he has just finished trading and so this year I have saved some of my own. I buy separate varieties as  I want five varieties for the shows. The Chairman of the housing trust where we live is also chairman of a nearby hort. soc, so he told other tenants at a tenants meeting that it would help him if they took the tops out of my plants as I usually beat him.
Good to chat

[plotstoeat]

"I sow my seed on October 8th so as to get a really good root system going ready to plant out in Feb/March. When I sow I only water  once then wait until they all show as they tend to damp off if too wet. I usually reckon on about 99 per/cent "

Did you sow your seeds yesterday Laurie? I am not sure whether to use 3" pots as in past or try root trainers that I have never used before. My success rate in pots is only about 50%

[laurieuk]

Sorry Plotsatoeat but have only just seen you post. I did sow last week on the 8th as usual, I sow in half pots about 10 to a pot , only water once. I found like runner beans if you try sowing in single pots they stay too wet.

[daveyboi]

Tee Gee just been looking at this site and he is based up north as well and seems his planting out times are much the same as for us down south

Laurie this person sells in packets of ten seeds if that is any help to you.

http://www.sweetpeasonline.co.uk/How-To-Grow-Sweetpeas-The-Matthewman-Way.html

[Tee Gee]

Tee Gee just been looking at this site and he is based up north as well and seems his planting out times are much the same as for us down south

Laurie this person sells in packets of ten seeds if that is any help to you.

http://www.sweetpeasonline.co.uk/How-To-Grow-Sweetpeas-The-Matthewman-Way.html

I have known David for at least fifteen years now, in fact I had a good natter with him at the Harrogate Autumn Show last month.

He is more or less giving up the 'big shows' and concentrating mainly on his seed sales.

In fact he is considering catering for the non-enthusiast as well as the enthusiast in future.

He is also a very good Dahlia grower as well.

I met him through the North of England Dahlia Society (NEDA) and specialises in 'Giants'

One tip I got from him this year was that he grows his sweet peas up string hooked to an overhead bar, then when he layers them he only needs to unhook the plant/s lay them along the floor then hook them up again.

I may try this next year as it must be a lot easier moving /layering them from canes etc.

What do you think Laurie? How do you support yours?

[laurieuk]

Hi Tee Gee,
I tried string once but with me it was a total disaster, they blew about in the wind too much. I use bamboo canes, when I was working I had scaffold poles so the the canes  could be tied up and not in the ground but now I have to push them in the ground so I lose a bit each year.