Author Topic: Digging through concrete clay surface on new allotment  (Read 6359 times)

thexman

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Digging through concrete clay surface on new allotment
« on: July 17, 2015, 00:10:33 »
I have just accepted a new plot on an allotment site which is itself brand new.

The area was formerly either a paddock or shrub on a hill side. I went there today with my fork intending to dig some ground, but found I could only sink the prongs about an inch into the surface so hard was the ground!

There is as yet no water supply to the site, so does anybody have any ideas of how to dig through this concrete so I can get some manure in?

I've also got horsestail on about a quarter of the site - oh joy! - but at least know how to clear that. The rest is nettles and other perennials, but no bind weed!

daveyboi

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Re: Digging through concrete clay surface on new allotment
« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2015, 00:55:06 »
I had this scenario in my field when I first got it.
I struggled and spent about 7 days persevering and managed to dig a strip a metre wide by 8 metres long but that was only to the depth of a fork.
To be honest the best way I would suggest is to wait till you have had a reasonable amount of rain .
Other suggestions
It could be tackled using a mattock but that cuts through the roots of the perennial weeds making them harder to extract.

You could use weedkiller then cover with a good thick layer of manure and let the worms start digging it for you until the rain comes


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ancellsfarmer

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Re: Digging through concrete clay surface on new allotment
« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2015, 06:31:33 »
Given that its late July, what is your planting plan?
I might consider that for brassicas for the winter, clear off the top vegetation, sprayed with Glysophate, and punch holes at planting spacings, using a crowbar or scaffold pole. Plant directly.
Similarly, leeks could be planted into the cleared syrface. Another area could be "sweated" under a black polythene sheet. This will draw ground moisture up ,softening the surface.Left for 14-21days, you may then be able to produce a tilth for seeding of autumn varieties, spinach, salads,and other surface rooting leafy crops, which you can sustain with carted water. As Autumn progresses, the rain will return and hopefully permit spade work to produce deeper beds.Left as clods, winter will break these down to provide a more easily worked soil for early sowings in Feb-March Manure spread on top will also get pulled in.
Rome was not built in a day!, infact, having visited , they still havent finished!
Good Luck, please report progress. A photo shoot posted at intervals, would be of interest and encourage others in their work.
Freelance cultivator qualified within the University of Life.

BarriedaleNick

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Re: Digging through concrete clay surface on new allotment
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2015, 08:05:22 »
Some of my plot was like concrete when I took it over and I was reduced to knocking holes in it, filling them up with a bit of compost and planting in that - pretty much like ancellsfarmer above suggests.  At least this can get you something in the ground now.  I also start virtually everything in modules - sowing direct meant losing seeds down cracks that went to the centre of the earth and the plants can get off to a good start in some decent compost.

Not having any water is a pain but I am assured that it will rain again one day.  I think, as already said, that you need to wait till the soil is wet as it will be much easier to dig.  The you can either try double digging - http://www.libertylawn.ca/gardening-tip-double-digging or you can just break it up with a fork and let winter do its stuff or break it up and cover it with manure.

I'd spend some time trying to locate sources of decent manure/compost and stock pilling it for the job.
Good luck and post pics!

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johhnyco15

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Re: Digging through concrete clay surface on new allotment
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2015, 14:11:18 »
some years ago i got my first allotment in chingford east london it was just as you described as the others have said grow in modules and digin loads and i mean loads of manure and when you think you put enough in put some more i did this and in 2 years i got it to somewhere near good ground then the wife said we moving to the coast and all my hard work went to waste lol so i say to you good luck keep us informed of your progress and yes plenty of pics  please  :sunny: :sunny: :sunny: :sunny: :sunny: :sunny: :glasses9:
johhnyc015  may the plot be with you

Deb P

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Re: Digging through concrete clay surface on new allotment
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2015, 21:14:47 »
My plot is on clay soil, our site used to be a brick works! No quick fix, but I found applying regular amounts of seaweed meal and mushroom compost really helped break the clay down in time. I also made raised beds which helped me concentrate my efforts in defined places, and this also helped in getting the plot looking neat and worked sooner than just digging everything over.
If it's not pouring with rain, I'm either in the garden or at the lottie! Probably still there in the rain as well TBH....🥴

http://www.littleoverlaneallotments.org.uk

thexman

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Re: Digging through concrete clay surface on new allotment
« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2015, 00:11:01 »
I am now on my third allotment, but I think this is definitely the hardest surface to dig. It rained over night, but the surface remained impenetrable.

I was asked about my planting schedule. I'm not expecting to plant anything for short term consumption, but will need to prepare the entire site for planting with soft fruit and that is going to take TONS of manure to lighten up the ground. Having to wait around until the soil becomes workable is therefore a pain. On the plus side, in the adjacent field, there is TONS of free horse manure, which we can scoop up and use as we want! Eat your hearts out!!!

Having said that... it is going to take some time to break this stuff down into workable fertiliser. I'm surface skimming the existing weeds, putting them in a compost bins with the horse pooh, to which I shall add some ammonium sulphamate, but don't know how long it will take to get anything workable - and I will need it by the autumn. So, although it is mid-July, I am already wondering how on earth I will get everything I needed planted before the winter comes.

Separately, the allotment has only been up and running for a couple of years. Apparently, more than 40 people were initially interested and, while all the plots seem to have been allocated, practically nobody is growing anything. Most odd... I suspect the heavy clay - which is brilliant for plants! - is putting a lot of people off.

Tee Gee

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Re: Digging through concrete clay surface on new allotment
« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2015, 09:36:23 »
I have been reading this thread with great interest having had  around eight allotments in the past so I know what it is like to start from scratch.

However On the whole I have been quite lucky in terms of soil type as up here in the Pennines the soil is generally quite light, more so after you have dug and mucked it a few times.

I guess we all have our cross to bear at times, by that I mean I am not envious of your soil type, although clay is better than what I have once you get on top of it, particularly in dry seasons like this year.

Currently my soil is just one big bird bath proved by a family of sparrows who are now using it as dust baths.

Where I do get a bit envious of you gardeners in the south is when you write in and saying that " I am harvesting this and harvesting that" and I know It will probably be another month or so before I am at the same stage.
 
But not to worry, my philosophy is: you reap what you sow,and the effort that comes out of a garden is commensurate with the effort you put into it.

So my advice is just steadily plod away with your digging and mucking and perhaps after thirty odd years like me the sparrows will love you for it. :glasses9:

Digeroo

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Re: Digging through concrete clay surface on new allotment
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2015, 11:52:39 »
I am a fan of a digging hoe. 

I started on a concrete plot.  Found that it melted for a very short time when it rained. 

No water is a problem so if I was you I would bring 8 litres each time, wet a small square and dig and plant it up.  Four 2 litre bottles fit nicely in a bucket.

I also started with a field.  It had had pigs on and they had compacted the soil.  And the concrete surface was well mixed with straw so there was no getting a spade in.   I simply dug a set of bucket sized holes and planted them up.   A bit like growing in pots but downwards.

Now I get jealous when anyone mentions rain.

ACE

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Re: Digging through concrete clay surface on new allotment
« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2015, 07:56:36 »
Get a builders fork. A heavy fork with a steel shaft, sometimes B & Q get them in cheap from Poland. With jumping on them and wriggling you can get the ground started and break the crust, then with a Pick axe or a mattock you will be able to get the top 8 to ten inches moving, top dress with manure, then in the autumn after some rain you will be able to get deeper with more manure added.

Most probably after Xmas it will be too wet to work, so you want to get it turned before then. Next spring it will be workable enough for planting. I found another handy tool is the narrow ended trenching spade, sometimes called a graft, once again a heavy tool but with only 4 to 6 inches to push in the ground it widens at the top so you get a reasonable spit dug, all though very slowly.


BarriedaleNick

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Re: Digging through concrete clay surface on new allotment
« Reply #10 on: July 29, 2015, 19:08:54 »
Those trenching spades are a great tool for the plot.  No good for shovelling but great for getting in amongst the hard bits.
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thexman

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Re: Digging through concrete clay surface on new allotment
« Reply #11 on: July 29, 2015, 23:13:31 »
Well, I ended up with a standard mattock, after being told that the Chillington Hoe I wanted was no longer made.

The mattock arrived today and performs well. However, although I was able to slip the head onto the handle, I am worried about how it is secured. The video shows a mallet hammer being used to bang the head into position, but I only have a standard hammer, which will only push the head so far into the handle, leaving some degree of play in the head.

What is the correct way to get the head more secure?

Tee Gee

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Re: Digging through concrete clay surface on new allotment
« Reply #12 on: July 29, 2015, 23:43:34 »
I never used a hammer

All that is required is to drop the blade down the shaft, then you will find that an inch or so of the shaft will stick out.

Next find a hard surface e.g. Concrete slabs  then lift the shaft about a foot above the concrete and drop the shaft end onto the concrete.

What happens then is the weight of the mattock blade will keep falling due to gravity and the shaft will be pushed upwards this causes the shaft to tighten in the blade.

You may find you have to do this dropping movement a few times to get a good fit.

This should be tight enough to work with but as an insurance you could leave the mattock in a bucket of water overnight and this will cause the shaft to swell and tighten even more.

As an aside each year I soak my mattock like this in case it has dried out in the shed and become loose,this tightens it up again.

I hope all that makes sense!

Digeroo

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Re: Digging through concrete clay surface on new allotment
« Reply #13 on: July 30, 2015, 05:40:20 »
Do think about the silverline digging hoe again.  The quality is fine.  The blade is good and handle ok.  The handle of mine now has a small spit in the top, but I keep leaving it out in the rain.  Much recommended on this forum.  Maybe in 10 years time it will need a new handle.

sparrow

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Re: Digging through concrete clay surface on new allotment
« Reply #14 on: July 30, 2015, 07:46:55 »
I'm a mattock fan. I've got heavy orange clay on my plot and a hardcore road running through it. The mattock makes steady progress through it. I do soak the end of the mattock to make sure the head sticks on though, as sometimes it rattles loose.

If it's like mine, your ground will take a lot longer to dry out after winter to something workable, even with tons of manure being added. I have a combination of slightly raised beds and lazy raised beds to help with drainage, and that helps. I still get envious when I read people saying 'planted this' or 'dug that' in Spring, knowing I still have about 3 more weeks to wait till it's not too sticky.

On the plus side, most things grow like the clappers.

My neighbours don't seem to feed their soil and I often get asked how much fertiliser pellets I use to get such good crops - when really I just add huge amounts of manure and the odd scattering of chicken manure/comfrey/growmore when I plant out.

thexman

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Re: Digging through concrete clay surface on new allotment
« Reply #15 on: July 30, 2015, 11:50:15 »
Thanks for that. I shall be dropping my mattock on every hard surface I can find on my way to the plot! Let's see what happens...

thexman

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Re: Digging through concrete clay surface on new allotment
« Reply #16 on: July 30, 2015, 23:37:42 »
What a revelation! I used my mattock in real anger today at the plot and levered out so many bramble roots. On a previous allotment, in a similar condition, I used a fork and spade, snapping the former, but with the mattock I simply let it swing down and its own momentum cut through roots like butter. I was really encouraged and my back wasn't challenged either :happy7:

I also found the stump of a large, old tree on which I bounced said mattock at advised above. The result was that the head dropped almost an inch on the handle, tightening it considerably.

I shall be back tomorrow for more fun. Never has clearing ground been so entertaining!

Thanks to all of you for your input.

gray1720

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Re: Digging through concrete clay surface on new allotment
« Reply #17 on: July 31, 2015, 09:59:21 »
The best is yet to come, thexman - bramble stubs burn green, so you are building up to a cracking bonfire!

I found clearing brambles so therapeutic I'm almost tempted to let a plot go to rack an ruin just so I can do it again... :tongue3:

Adrian
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thexman

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Re: Digging through concrete clay surface on new allotment
« Reply #18 on: August 01, 2015, 00:09:39 »
Yes, there is nothing like a good bonfire, is there?

Our new allotment site is partially covered in brambles. Actually, the bramble infestation could be worse than most people imagine. The ground was, apparently, originally coated in the things, which were skimmed using a digger. Obviously, that made things much worse, since there are now twice as many brambles growing in the soil, many of which you don't notice until you are on top of them. So, a piece of ground that looks OK on first sight, on closer inspection turns out to be hell on earth!!!

Actually, I like ground that has previously been bramble coated, since the brambles have kept out the other weeds, so weeds don't tend to be a problem for several years, nor do slugs and snails.

However, on gentleman has made a major mistake: he has covered a cleared (sic) bramble patch with mypex. Rather than killing the roots, it has encouraged growth in what must be quite an interesting environment beneath.

I think we will lose many nascent members because of the bramble problem. I shall lend my mattock to whosoever needs it. Brambles don't have to be a problem and, yes, the satisifaction mentioned above when clearing a plot of them is marvellous.

ACE

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Re: Digging through concrete clay surface on new allotment
« Reply #19 on: August 01, 2015, 08:20:15 »
Keeping an edge on the mattock also makes the work easier. Years ago I would drop into a local blacksmiths and he would heat it up and draw out an edge with a big hammer. Nowadays I just lightly run the angle grinder along the edge. No need to go mad, once or twice a year, mine is over 30 years old and still has plenty of meat on the head.

 

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