How far can tenancy agreements go in dictating what is grown?

[thexman]

Is it possible for a tenancy agreement to effectively ban plot holders from growing certain fruit and vegetables?

For example, can asparagus be banned? What about rhubarb, strawberries, gooseberries and raspberries?

If so, could anybody point out in which allotment act this is stated?

[thexman]

[Bonsai Si]

I'd say check your agreement with the authority who own/run the plots.  If not get clarification from them and which act or acts you have to adhere too?

Horse's mouth and all that?

[BAK]

Talk to other plot holders. You may find that some crops are acceptable even though the tenancy agreement may say something different. This can be because the tenancy agreement is a fairly ancient document and the precise reasons for banning a particular crop may have been lost in the mists of time .. and the tenancy agreement has never been updated to reflect the situation today.

As previously said, the owner of the site (council or a.n.other) specifies the rules with respect to which crops can be grown. Allotment acts do not tend to cover this topic.

[artichoke]

Yes - our agreement at one site says no sheds allowed, confirmed some years ago when a new chairman rang up the owners to ask for some leeway. But over the years many small ones have sprung up and we are currently building a bigger one for storing tools, making tea etc. Our one concession is that none are on the open field, they are all hidden away under trees and in the boundary hedges.

Sorry, not much help about growing things......both my allotment sites are full of fruit trees and bushes and asparagus (why on earth not asparagus?). Have you been told by someone that you must not grow them?

[sparrow]

We have guidelines on fruit trees, where they can be planted, no orchard plots etc, but no outright bans on certain crops - though saying that the tenancy agreement state that the plots are for cultivation of fruit and vegetables, so massive growing of flowers is by inference not encouraged. My friend's site has a rule of no structures over 5ft, no greenhouses and no trees other than on dwarfing rootstock.

Out of interest, what's being banned and why?

[thexman]

What I am really asking is whether a council can specify in a tenancy agreement that certain crops cannot be grown. See my list. I know, for example, that the tenancy agreement can ban bees, but, seriously, can they ban asparagus and strawberries? If so, on what grounds?

[goodlife]

What I am really asking is whether a council can specify in a tenancy agreement that certain crops cannot be grown. See my list. I know, for example, that the tenancy agreement can ban bees, but, seriously, can they ban asparagus and strawberries? If so, on what grounds?

Sure they can and they don't need any other excuse than that 'just because they can'. They might have their reasons for doing so, but as 'land lords' they don't need to give you the reason. If they state clearly in your tenancy agreement what you can and what you cannot do/grow...and you agree to it when taking the plot, there is little you can do about it. You might try to campaign later on to change some ruling and they just might listen to it..but reality is that if there is 'non gardener' running council's leisure activities...they are not going understand or even bother to go through trouble changing anything, it might cause some extra work and cost by doing so. There is nothing stopping you to asking their reasons and waving 'public information act flag' might yield some results for you query...but be aware making too much uncomfortable noises...some councils are known to be 'difficult' for those who dare to question them...

[bluecar]

Hello all.

I'm feeling a bit confused. For example, the allotments act allows you to have chickens on the allotment then, if the allotment is one which falls under the allotment act, can the landlord then prevent you having chickens on the allotment? Taking things to the extreme, if the landlord says you can not grow asparagus and other named vegetables what is to stop them saying that the only vegetable you can grow is beetroot?

Bluecar

[thexman]

bluecar's comment is exactly the area I am thinking about. The allotment acts, for example, make it impossible for councils to ban hens, if my memory is correct, but while bees are allowed, they can  be banned in a tenancy agreement. I believe - again, my memory may be wrong here - but doesn't one of the early acts (1908?) make it possible for a council in its tenancy agreements to ban whatever it wants in terms of what is cultivated?

In an agreement I have seen, there is, for example, the following clause:

"He shall not, without the consent of the Council, plant in the allotment any fruit trees or bushes, strawberry plants or asparagus, rhubarb, or other market garden crops which continue productive for two or more years."

The 1908 act specifies that fruit and vegetables can be grown, but this clause seems to make it impossible to grow the former. Only tomatoes - as a fruit - would seem to be possible.

Any comments on A. the legality of this clause and B.how somebody would get around it?

I think, as some people have suggested, it is to stop ejected plot holders from seeking compensation from the council from the aforemnetioned crops, but seems ludicrous in the modern age.

[goodlife]

bluecar's comment is exactly the area I am thinking about. The allotment acts, for example, make it impossible for councils to ban hens, if my memory is correct, but while bees are allowed, they can  be banned in a tenancy agreement. I believe - again, my memory may be wrong here - but doesn't one of the early acts (1908?) make it possible for a council in its tenancy agreements to ban whatever it wants in terms of what is cultivated?

In an agreement I have seen, there is, for example, the following clause:

"He shall not, without the consent of the Council, plant in the allotment any fruit trees or bushes, strawberry plants or asparagus, rhubarb, or other market garden crops which continue productive for two or more years."

The 1908 act specifies that fruit and vegetables can be grown, but this clause seems to make it impossible to grow the former. Only tomatoes - as a fruit - would seem to be possible.

Any comments on A. the legality of this clause and B.how somebody would get around it?

I think, as some people have suggested, it is to stop ejected plot holders from seeking compensation from the council from the aforemnetioned crops, but seems ludicrous in the modern age.

Ah...that sounds like wording from bygone era...meaning that perennial crops can be only grown if council allow it so....one time there was lot of so called 'market growers', not like modern farmers today, but small growers who's land area wasn't that much bigger than allotments but their income came from those seasonal perennial crops and they were very dependant of it. To able to regulate those crops, council was able to make sure no market grower did get left out without sufficient income because of competition from allotmenteers.
Many perennial crops are very easy to get rid of and rather than difficulty of clearing them out due change of tenancy..I suspect it is just old clause that is left behind on the tenancy.
If nobody has never really challenged and questioned that...I suspect it is just forgotten and modern day officers not being gardeners, don't really understand why it might be there in first place.
I reckon if  you/somebody would write nicely worded letter questioning the clause and  explaining the current situation, and how it restrict gardeners(maybe list of plot holders signatures to go with it)...you might end up with agreeable update. They might not want to fully remove it,but if they are willing to made update 'black on white'..saying something like "in current day situation we take favourable view growing 'such and such type crops' "...it would give legal agreement members to grow perennial crops 'until further notice' and still leave the council a chance of final saying should they ever need it.
I might be easier job to sort out than you realize...just don't go about it in 'attack mode' but explain that it is something you lot are concern, particularly if it is something that is not enforced and gardeners have grown such a crops for looooong time regardless...? Maybe just suggesting them for a 'up date' for that old clause so that you all feel comfortable doing things 'by the book'.

[johhnyco15]

the two sites we own one you are allowed livestock the other not bees are not allowed on both sites trees have to be planted at least 3 foot from the path and on dwarf root stock but you can have espaliers and fans there are no crop bans but my point is allotment law is a very shady grey area look at our two we own both sites but they are completely different  suck it and see is the phrase id use hope this helps as the subject is as clear as mud 

[Fork]

You can grow anything on our council run site. I have not seen anything in the rules to say not anyway.


The only rules we have are regards positioning of buildings etc and the lighting of fires at certain times.

We have plenty of hens,geese and even turkeys at one stage................so therefore get a lot of rats too.Some plot holders do not like the presence of hens etc but because of the act of parliament,nothing they can do about it. I don't have any but they don't bother me.

I did hear of a site somewhere that don't allow you to grow broad beans because they attract blackfly!!

[cornykev]

As said every site whether council or private have there own rules
I have heard of strawberries not being allowed
Some ban, sheds, livestock, carpets, trees, fires the list goes on
But each site will differ from others
As mentioned perennial crops seem to be the problem
Some peeps grow these then leave them for years and the next bugger who moves on site has the unenviable task digging them out
Trees I agree with because I have seen them planted bang in the middle of plots and nothing much else can grow around them taking up most of the plot
My strawberries have got of of control and will need culling next year
You should be allowed to grow them but do need to  control the growth
Rhubarb and Asparagus shouldn't be a problem in my eyes as they are easy to control
Have look what other plot holders are growing and ask their opinions, I'm an all guns blazing type of guy, but it's not the best way forward when your a newbie.

[bluecar]

Hello all.

I'm still confused.

If the allotment act, as stands, states that keeping of chickens is allowable, can the landlord of a designated allotment site introduce a tenancy agreement that prevents the keeping of chickens?

Regards

Bluecar

[goodlife]

Hello all.

I'm still confused.

If the allotment act, as stands, states that keeping of chickens is allowable, can the landlord of a designated allotment site introduce a tenancy agreement that prevents the keeping of chickens?

Regards

Bluecar

No they can't do so  ....allotment act is statutory law and apply to any site that is registered to be used as allotments. Only time keeping chickens can be denied "if they are kept in such a place or in such a manner as to be prejudicial to health or nuisance or affect the operation of any enactment".

[bluecar]

Thanks Goodlife.

You have confirmed what I thought. I'm only using the chickens as an example.

So my advice to the original post is to establish whether the allotment is a registered allotment, in which case if it is I do not believe they can impose a ban on growing any specific vegetables or fruit. I can understand local agreements in terms of restriction in height of fruit trees, size of buildings etc, If it is not registered then I guess it is possible to implement greater restrictions as to what can or can not be grown.

Regards

Bluecar

[cornykev]

Livestock:     The tenant shall not keep any livestock on the allotment plot unless prior permission has been obtained Councils PBU.


Use:    The tenant shall use the allotment plot only for the purpose of growing vegtables, fruit, flowers and lawn.

A few exerts from our Tenancy Agreement   T's & C's

[goodlife]

Thanks Goodlife.

You have confirmed what I thought. I'm only using the chickens as an example.

So my advice to the original post is to establish whether the allotment is a registered allotment, in which case if it is I do not believe they can impose a ban on growing any specific vegetables or fruit. I can understand local agreements in terms of restriction in height of fruit trees, size of buildings etc, If it is not registered then I guess it is possible to implement greater restrictions as to what can or can not be grown.

Regards
Bluecar

Oh, let correct my previous post. The bit about 'registered'...that was my own words. The allotment act actually state that the Act apply to ANY land that are used for allotment purposes. I just mentioned the registered bit as I understand any land has to be registered for its intended purposes...agricultural, gardens etc.
I have read a bit of allotment act and its different versions, and I haven't come across anything that would specify any particular crops.
So when there is no 'act' restrictions, council may do their own rules providing there is not other legalities that may have influence.
In our case, society own the land, our last point of call is our deeds and what rules we have set to ourselves....luckily we don't have no restriction regarding what to grow or not....but we cannot boil tripe, make fish meal ..nor make and sell alcohol on our land..

[thexman]

Hello everybody, back again. Sorry for the silence, but I have moved house, which has turned everything upside down.

Anyway, I can now answer my own question!

I have worked out why the list of prescribed vegetables is not in favour.

If you go the Smallholdings and Allotment Act 1908 - which is on line - go to section 47, which is about compensation to the tenant in cases when he or she is asked to leave by the council. In such cases, the plotholder is actually liable for compensation for improvements they have made. The main section of the legislation doesn't say so, but scroll down to near the end of the act and you come across a list of fruit and vegetables that are considered to be improvments to the plot. All are those on the original list I posted!

This tenancy agreement is covering its own rear end in the case of allotments having to be seized for other purposes.

Do you know what is maddening? I bet the council has no idea why the clause is still insisted upon in its agreement...

Actually, I don't think a tenany agreement can ban the growing of any type of fruit or vegetable, because definitions given as to what "allotments" constitute in the 1908 and 1925 acts clearly state that they can be used to grow fruit and vegetables to support the plot holder and his or her family.

In the case I quoted above, the tenant can write to the council to ask permission to grow the otherwise prescribed plants and I don't think that permission can be refused. However,  I'm guessing that, in 1908, faced with such a daunting clause, many semi-illiterate plot holders would have doffed their caps and shut their mouths... and grown spuds, beans and carrots, but not much else...