Author Topic: Outdoor tomatoes  (Read 6950 times)

Silverleaf

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Outdoor tomatoes
« on: January 30, 2015, 01:37:15 »
I've grown tomatoes a few times but mostly in my (non-heated) greenhouse. One year I put a few plants in a raised bed because my greenhouse was full to bursting, but they didn't do very much and I can't remember harvesting anything from them.

My greenhouse is possibly 5'x7' with space for 12 plants or so, but of course I want to grow non-tomatoes in there too. Annoyingly there's a large beech hedge to the west side so it's shaded from mid afternoon but it's still warmer than outside!

And now I've accumulated lots of different varieties of seed. It would be nice to try a few more than I can fit in the greenhouse... maybe I could have some plants in large pots or something?

Any tips on outdoor tomatoes? I presume the earlier the better. How do you prevent blight and such when rain falls on them all the time? How do you stop them getting waterlogged in said rain?

galina

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Re: Outdoor tomatoes
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2015, 08:05:30 »
Rigging up overhead cover is a good one.  Or making use of existing overhead cover.  Tomatoes in pots just outside the house benefit from the stored warmth of the walls and from the extra dryness that the eaves provide.  If you can provide an east or south facing area under the eaves, you can prolong tomato growing and prevent blight for much longer.  MIL does this and her house tomatoes are much more successful than her tomatoes in the garden borders.   She does not have a greenhouse.

The other advice is to research your varieties well.  Early ripening ones in the garden, later ones in the greenhouse.  Sorry I even mention this obvious suggestion.

I would not sow particularly early for outdoor tomatoes, because plants that are just on the verge of flowering and stocky grow away much faster than stretched older weaker plants which need longer to acclimatise.  Unless you can cope with a lot of taking them out during the day and fetching them back in at night when they are larger seedlings, 8 weeks before planting out is probably the right sowing time.  When is your last expected frost?  They like being planted out during a spell of mild weather with warmer nights to start growing rapidly.  It is a bit of a gamble and if you have some cover to hand just in case of unexpected early June frosts, then planting out from early to mid May should work.  Good luck. 


Silverleaf

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Re: Outdoor tomatoes
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2015, 08:27:21 »
Thanks Galina, that's very helpful. :)

I hadn't thought about growing next to the house, but that's a possibility. The east side has a little space so that might work, but unfortunately the south side is shaded by the garage and orchard.

Last frost here is apparently the last week in April.

I do have some early varieties so I can try those - I'll have to consult my spreadsheet!

small

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Re: Outdoor tomatoes
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2015, 09:50:52 »
I do better with outdoor ones in pots on the backyard, too, I've lost ones in the veg patch to blight in the last few years. I do agree about not starting them too soon....early in the greenhouse, and stretch the season with the outdoor ones. I do question your last frost timing though....not wanting to be rude, but it sounds as if you have taken that late April date from somewhere other than your own records? I'm not too far from you, between Derby and Nottingham, and we have often had a frost at the very end of May into early June - so be prepared with the bubble wrap!

johhnyco15

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Re: Outdoor tomatoes
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2015, 13:14:44 »
give the variety fandango a look big tomato good taste and shows resistance to blight i grow all my tomato plants outside they normally get blight around Sept i give them a spray of Bordeaux mixture this hold back the blight but you must spray before infection hope this helps
johhnyc015  may the plot be with you

Silverleaf

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Re: Outdoor tomatoes
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2015, 02:02:45 »
Thank you Small and Johhnyco15!

I did get my last frost date from a website (I haven't been growing anywhere near long enough to have reliable records of my own yet), but I'm aware that that's just the last expected frost and that it's entirely possible to get frost weeks after that.

My plan is to start hardening off plants at the beginning of May if the weather looks promising, aiming for them to be planted out the third or fourth week of May. They can stay in the greenhouse for a while if necessary, if the weather doesn't co-operate.

I'm not planning on acquiring any other varieties since I have (I think) 54 right now! Of course, if there's something I just HAVE to have, it would be rude to say no!

Here's what I have that's early (well 70 days or less):
Podsnezhnik (Snowdrop)
Katja
Sandpoint
Red Robin
Taxi
Latah
Peacevine
Alaskan Fancy
Dr Carolyn
Rosalie's Early Orange

jimc

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Re: Outdoor tomatoes
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2015, 02:48:21 »
I have used plastic tree guards (the ones stretched around 3 stakes) with good success for planting tomatoes early when there is a risk of late frost. To keep the plants from growing tall and elongated and reduce early blight I do one of the following:
For short plants pull the plastic up and peg it up so good day light and air flow goes through under the plastic.
Or push the plastic down so the crown of the plant sticks out the top.
Or leave off and only put over stakes if there is some doubt about the night's weather forecast.
One year I added tall straw inside the plastic as an insulation but found the plants were too shaded and all they wanted to do was shoot up for light.

Digeroo

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Re: Outdoor tomatoes
« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2015, 11:36:26 »
Quote
Last frost here is apparently the last week in April.

I would suggest this is an average.  Which means you could still get one up to beginning of June.  You will need to keep up with the weather forecast and anything lower than 4 may need some fleecing.  We even had one in August last year.  I lost some nasturtiums.  My best ones are covered in plastic for some weeks.

There is a program called IFTTT which you can use to set up an email or phone warning.



plotstoeat

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Re: Outdoor tomatoes
« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2015, 12:59:05 »
"And now I've accumulated lots of different varieties of seed."

Silverleaf: do you save your own seed? If so, can you tell me the best way to get the stickiness off and dry them? I grew Tigerella very successfully outdoors last year. They were in different locations but the ones in fulI sun in growbags did best. I don't much like raw tomatoes but these were nice. I did keep a few for seeds but didn't get around to it.

Silverleaf

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Re: Outdoor tomatoes
« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2015, 13:32:33 »
Quote
Last frost here is apparently the last week in April.

I would suggest this is an average.  Which means you could still get one up to beginning of June.  You will need to keep up with the weather forecast and anything lower than 4 may need some fleecing.  We even had one in August last year.  I lost some nasturtiums.  My best ones are covered in plastic for some weeks.

There is a program called IFTTT which you can use to set up an email or phone warning.

That makes sense. I do use IFTTT and it's really helpful. :)

Actually I had a nasturtium that didn't die from frost until well into December. Last year was weird.

Silverleaf

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Re: Outdoor tomatoes
« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2015, 13:38:29 »
"And now I've accumulated lots of different varieties of seed."

Silverleaf: do you save your own seed? If so, can you tell me the best way to get the stickiness off and dry them? I grew Tigerella very successfully outdoors last year. They were in different locations but the ones in fulI sun in growbags did best. I don't much like raw tomatoes but these were nice. I did keep a few for seeds but didn't get around to it.

I do save my own seeds, yeah. The first few times I mixed the pulp with water in a jar with no lid and let the whole thing get mouldy - I'm sure someone with more experience can explain the process better than me - and then washed off the seeds and dried them on a plate, stirring them up occasionally so they didn't stick.

Then the internet told me that you can skip all that and just scoop out the seeds and gel and spread it out onto kitchen paper. When you sow the seeds you can just tear up bits of the paper with the seeds still stuck on and plant that! Disclaimer: I've saved seeds this way but haven't tried to germinate them yet. I hear others have success like that though.

goodlife

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Re: Outdoor tomatoes
« Reply #11 on: January 31, 2015, 13:49:39 »

Quote
Then the internet told me that you can skip all that and just scoop out the seeds and gel and spread it out onto kitchen paper. When you sow the seeds you can just tear up bits of the paper with the seeds still stuck on and plant that! Disclaimer: I've saved seeds this way but haven't tried to germinate them yet. I hear others have success like that though.

Yes you can do seed on paper and they do germinate....BUT...the usual recommended 'mouldy fermentation' method is said to result best germination rate. The gelly like membrane around each seed supposed to have some component that will inhibit germination. And as the nature does it...the fruit goes rotten and mouldy, breaking down the membrane and seeds germinate where the fruit drops. But then again, us hobbyist...we often only need just odd seed to germinate to get enough plants for our needs..saving the hassle and missing all the 'odours' that fermentation produce, 'paper saving' is attractive option....though I would not save such seed for long term storage (years).

plotstoeat

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Re: Outdoor tomatoes
« Reply #12 on: January 31, 2015, 16:06:15 »
Thanks Silverleaf and Goodlife. I have been in in greenhouse this afternoon and found the rotting Tigerellas. I have washed out seeds and drying them on some brown cardboard so they may not stick. Next question is when to sow them in propagator? End of Feb?

Robert_Brenchley

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Re: Outdoor tomatoes
« Reply #13 on: January 31, 2015, 17:31:53 »
Squeeze out the pulp with the seeds, cover it with water, and leave it until there's a good layer of mould on top. Then swirl it all round in a jar, give the seeds a few seconds to settle, and pour off everything that floats. Repeat until there's nothing left but clean seed at the bottom. The digestive enzymes produced by the mould will have broken down the stcky goo, and got rid of germination inhibitors as well.

Paulh

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Re: Outdoor tomatoes
« Reply #14 on: February 01, 2015, 15:27:29 »
For about 20 years now I've grown tomatoes in pots (9" or so diameter and 10" depth at least) on our patio which is west facing. The pots are against the house wall so the plants benefit from the radiated warmth and the canes up which they grow can be secured. I plant them out about the end of April when ideally the plants are about a foot or so tall and have a first flower truss. The position against the house wall tends not to get frosted but I'm ready to wrap them with fleece if the forecast is poor, as the drop in air temperature sets them back even if there's no frost as such. In the past I just bought plants at sales (Gardener's Delight mainly) but now sow about the end of March/early April - I have window sills, no greenhouse - and they usually romp away. I don't want them getting too large before they can go outside.

The last couple of years I've grown 12 plants, each with 4 or 5 trusses, as cordons. I've invested in a solar-powered watering system connected to the water butt, and the regular watering has made a huge difference to the crop and the quality (far fewer split fruits or blossom end rot). It ends the problem of watering while we're away on holiday, too.

They crop into autumn and any green ones left ripen inside.

Just about any outdoor variety works, except beefsteak - but cherry and small fruited ones are best.

The only serious blight I've had is on bush tomatoes, due to a lack of ventilation in the plant, I suspect. I don't grow those now.

If you've a similar sunny spot, go for it!

Silverleaf

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Re: Outdoor tomatoes
« Reply #15 on: February 04, 2015, 12:31:58 »
Urgh, I just can't narrow down what varieties to grow! I'm trying to get my selection as varied as possible because I want to try as many new ones as I can, with lots of colours and types.

I'm aiming for 6 plants outside, 6 in the greenhouse. I'll probably end up with more than that, because how do I decide??

Here's the current shortlist, in approximate order of earliness (according to the internet):
Katja
Sandpoint
Black Cherry
Purple Ukraine
Taxi
Rosalie's Early Orange
Blush
Costoluto Fiorentino
Helsing Junction Blues
Sosulka Chernaya
Sosulka Rozovaya
Latah
Green Pear
Sunstream (saved from supermarket toms because they tasted great - looks like it might be OP so this is a little experiment)

Anyone dislike any of these? I prefer my toms quite acidic and juicy, and can't stand anything "fluffy" and tasteless. I don't think I'd like anything sugary sweet either, unless it's also sharp.

johhnyco15

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Re: Outdoor tomatoes
« Reply #16 on: February 14, 2015, 16:08:51 »
just started preparing my outdoor tomato bed this week digging in rotted horse manure and a top dressing of racing pigeon poo by the time i get to plant it out the rain has driven in the pigeon poo and the toms grow like mad
johhnyc015  may the plot be with you

Jayb

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Re: Outdoor tomatoes
« Reply #17 on: February 14, 2015, 18:13:01 »
just started preparing my outdoor tomato bed this week digging in rotted horse manure and a top dressing of racing pigeon poo by the time i get to plant it out the rain has driven in the pigeon poo and the toms grow like mad

You are way ahead of me, I'm afraid I've not even cleared tomato beds from last year
Glad the pigeon poo works well  :happy7:
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Jayb

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Re: Outdoor tomatoes
« Reply #18 on: February 14, 2015, 18:22:08 »
Generally bush varieties tend to do well outside, while some of the cordon types are better for indoors.

From your list ones for the greenhouse
Black Cherry although I don’t much like the variety, but I'm in a minority as many people rave its flavour and it is productive. I think best return in the Greenhouse
Sosulka Chernaya, is a great little number, I’d favour the greenhouse with this as your cropping season will be excellent, it’s fairly early and just keeps on going till cut down by frosts. Taste is great fresh or cooked.
Green Pear, just gorgeous little pear shaped tomatoes, really quite sweet and very moreish best in greenhouse
Helsing Junction Blues, one of my favourite of the ‘antho’ tomatoes, stunning fruits and decent tomato taste, not sweet.  Will grow outdoors in a good spot but best inside.
Costoluto Fiorentino, great tasting tomato, good fresh or cooked, looks great in salad. Will produce in a sheltered spot but if you have space will do better inside.

Outdoors
Taxi, one for outdoors. A good producer but season can be on the short side, lovely looking yellow fruits on a fairly compact plant and grows well in a large pot/container as well as in the ground. For me the flavour borders on the milder side but still a good taste.
Latah, really nice tomato good all round, early and taste is great.
Katja, I’ve not grown this but it has great reviews and should handle outdoors well. It sounds an excellent tomato.

Drop Blush as although beautiful the flavour is slightly mild.
Purple Ukraine , if you are limited for space, I think Sosulka Chernaya is the winner by far.
Sosulka Rozovaya, again if pushed for space I’d grow the black one.

I’ve not grown either Sandpoint or Rosalie's Early Orange but both sound very good. Sandpoint is said to have mild flavour and Galina wrote Rosalie's Early Orange would do best outdoors

Again if you are short of space maybe not Sunstream.
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goodlife

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Re: Outdoor tomatoes
« Reply #19 on: February 14, 2015, 18:25:46 »

You are way ahead of me, I'm afraid I've not even cleared tomato beds from last year
[/quote]

Me neither.. :laughing7: :angel12:..but since today was my first proper outdoor working day, I'm getting to it soon..now that I'm acclimatized again. My tomato GH has lot of broken glass panes...snow did lot of damage...and before doing plant clearance I have lot of glass to pick up first :BangHead:

 

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