Author Topic: New plot --- evil grass  (Read 5227 times)

Bubbles26

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New plot --- evil grass
« on: January 18, 2015, 15:56:06 »
Hi guys,

Not been on here for a while as I had to give up my old plot when I moved counties :(

But ... I have today finally got another plot near my new home! Yay!

However, it is covered in VERY tall grass (like 3foot tall). We are trying to work out the best way to clear this. We tried digging it over and remove the grass and roots today however after 4 hours we had only managed to clear a 2m or so patch and not very well.

Has anyone else had to clear a plot like this before? How did you do it?

Currently we are considering taking the top layer of soil off and stacking the grass clumps, or rotivating, or asking a friendly farmer to plough it ( it is a massive plot at 35ft across and at least 300 ft long) out of these what's the best option and how to go about it?

Any hints and tip greatly appreciated :)
2015 - New plot. Let's go!!

goodlife

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Re: New plot --- evil grass
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2015, 17:39:23 »
I assume you would be tackling with couch grass..which is not a easy task. To start with...scraping the layer of the best top soil WON'T work as couch grass roots go very deep and even very small section of the root will rapidly grow again and you would only loose best part of soil for growing.
There is only two ways with it...one is VERY back breaking and will virtually take forever..and other easier but it will involve chemicals and possible more than one or two applications.
The first option you are already familiar with...and second will involve waiting until the grass has started grow again, has good amount of new growth and then it is sprayed with weedkiller....wait 'till the tops have died and then tackle what ever roots have survived or wait regrowth and spray again.

Personally I would rough dig the soil over, just to break it up pulling any obvious long lengths of roots off as I go along. Once the soil is turned and becoming slightly easier to work with, I would either start smaller section of the time doing more thorough digging which would be available for planting soon after. But bulk of the land I would spray..YES, I'm anti chemical person..but the is limit how much one can do digging (time and physical wise). Don't try to weed the roots out from solid ground...the more you trying to loosen the soil, the more you will be breaking the roots into smaller sections and not able to separate most of it from soil anyway.
If you are able to work the soil quite soon...just turning in over in big lumps and leaving it as it is...there is still cold weather to come and those lumps will naturally break down a bit..or at least resulting the soil draining from excess moisture better and come spring it is easier and possible earlier ready for more through 'work out'....you could later on run rotatavator over it if (yes with the roots and all!) IF you decide to go to 'spray option'.
I have couch grass on my plots...and no matter how much I've tried to get rid of with by digging..over here it is not doable...hedges, bushes, fruit trees..it is amongst all those. So I've kind of learned to live with it and kept it under control as such, enough for crops but never really got rid of. Any other areas where I cannot dig I have occasionally had to use sprays, don't like it, but unless I would strip all old brick paths and established plants away and start again with plank canvas..there is no other way.

We've had couple of plots that have been absolutely thickets with couch grass...several years growth worth it. On is my next door neighbour who just couple of month ago started the job. He has started it with rough turn over, soil is resting now...later on he will be borrowing my rotavator to get soil all loose and the apply weedkiller once the growth start...hopefully come late April/May it is all ready for planting....but even then I've warned him there will be odd batches of grass coming through and it will be always be battle against to keep new growth from spreading from hedgerows.
Other neighbour did hire mini digger and did scrape job...what a mess...the grass just grew back and didn't show that anything would have happened few month earlier...that chap tried bit of hand weeding and then he did not come no more.



Bubbles26

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Re: New plot --- evil grass
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2015, 18:12:37 »
Thanks so much for the reply goodlife

I used to have the age old battle with couch grass on my old plot. But having spent some time digging it today I don't think it is couch, it just doesn't look the same. I think it just regular old grass that's been left for many years (they are new plots).  It used to be a farmers field and I'm told he used to use it for hay and silage so I'm assuming it's the remnants of that.

Of course I could be completely wrong!

Maybe we could try both as there isn't any new growth at the moment so spraying would be pointless. I'm wondering whether we should try and remove the top layer of grass on a small section and then spray the rest when it's time.

Hmmm decisions decisions


2015 - New plot. Let's go!!

goodlife

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Re: New plot --- evil grass
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2015, 20:22:35 »
'Grass' is good news!....just turn the turf over in big lumps and leave it at the bottom of the trench/hole and it will rot down and die...anything perennial would still grow in spring, but that would be easier to tackle then. Though there is other sort of perennial grasses that are hard work to get rid too.
What ever grass/weed it might be...I would still not take top soil off..it is hard work to replace and grow back again..building soil levels up will take years unless one result getting to replace it from somewhere else and that could be expensive and hard work again +unless you know where it came from and being screened soil, you could be bringing all sort of 'nasty things' to the plot.

taurus

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Re: New plot --- evil grass
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2015, 21:41:44 »
What a lovely big plot, I realise the way I do it may not be practical for such a large area (25ft by 60ft is all I have) but it may help.  We have couch and clay soil so you can imagen what a nightmare that is.  After a great many years I've found one of the best ways is to cover it with something heavy that excludes the light and wet.  In my case its old lorry side sheets rescued from a local lorry yard.  Thier happy to get rid rather than pay to bin them.  So on the plus side its recycling, warms the soil. If its just grass you have it will not grow so easier digging.  If it's couch it will travel under looking for the light, but it does weeken it and makes it much easier to deal with.  Plus its a darn site cheaper than sprays.  Good luck, Taurus

jimc

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Re: New plot --- evil grass
« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2015, 03:18:28 »
As if several have mentioned it could be couch which is rhizomatous. For me that is bad news if it is the same as our couch grass in Oz.
However you mentioned it grows in clumps and to me that is not couch.
As mentioned it can be covered with metal sheets but needs hot sunny days to solarize what is underneath.
I would dig or hoe rows so that you can get something planted in the short term. Make sure the rows are fairly wide apart so if you have trouble keeping up with working the inter row area you can at least run a lawn mower down it. I have done something similar and after cutting down the grass cover it with hay biscuits or grass cuttings to slow down the growth of the tussocks in the middle. Also just by chipping along the edge of your new plants and widening the cut each time you go along the row you can slowly eliminate the tussocks too.
The garden I started 12 years ago occurred when I was very unwell. I even had difficulty standing on a digging fork but I did and just kept going length to length so the holes left by the prongs were in a straight line. I couldn't even turn the soil so just popped seeds into the ground at every second or third hole. I made the rows 50 cm apart and placed biscuits of hay in between. It took about 3 years but I was able to control the grass in the inter row area, which included some couch, kikuyu and native Oz grasses and weeds. At least I was able to get a harvest in time and now my garden totally supplies all my fruit and veg year in year out for the past 3 or so years for vegetables and over 6 years for fruit.
A new garden bed I made this morning involved planting beans at an old (it was only about 5 years old but I didn't need another one) quince tree site which I removed a couple of years ago. Admittedly the row is only about 4 metres long but part of it had an old bale of hay sitting on it which had been placed there 2 years ago but never split. Beautiful soil underneath but the rest was weeds and native grasses. I cleared them away, dug a little hole at each planting site and planted the seeds. I will spread compost along the row in coming days and spread the remaining hay too. Hope to get a harvest before winter.
Whatever you do takes effort.

Bubbles26

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Re: New plot --- evil grass
« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2015, 09:26:57 »
Thanks for all the advice guys.

The size of the plot is slightly daunting, it's about twice the size as my old one, which I was able to keep on top of and even won 'best kept plot' one year. But this time round I have a who partner is on board so hopefully between us we will be able to have our own bit of outside space and a shared hobby we can spend time together working on.

I think we have settled on a plan of action and are realistic that we might not get the whole plot cultivated this year and may have to be an ongoing clearing process but we will get there.

As it is such a large space, we are going to get some large tarps and cover the top half. Then  starting at the bottom cut the 3ft long grass short and turn it over to hopefully kill it off. Once it has died, dig it over and rake flat. So just keep working up the plot like that until it's done.

That should shift the extra lbs from over Christmas ;)
2015 - New plot. Let's go!!

Jayb

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Re: New plot --- evil grass
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2015, 09:44:40 »
Sounds like a good plan, keeping it manageable and realistic. I think covering part so time and worms do some of the work for you is a good idea and will take the pressure off. You may even find it has died back enough to plant with squash later in the year? 

Congratulations and good luck with your plot. Keep us all updated on your progress.
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kGarden

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Re: New plot --- evil grass
« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2015, 09:59:41 »
Yup, my approach would be the same:

Cut all the grass down, as short as possible.  The tall grass cuttings will make reasonable compost, so just rake & stack it all in a heap. If it has any seed heads they probably will have all shed already.

Cover all the cut grass that you can - tarpaulins / membrane of some sort. I'm not a fan of carpet for this job, once it starts to rot and roots grow through its a nightmare to remove, but for "short term" it would be OK.

If the soil in the plot is good - well looked after in the past - you could just cover with cardboard and put manure on the top, and then plant through.  I personally think that a one-time-dig is important to open soil, incorporate organic matter, improve drainage etc. before embarking on no-dig, but for a previously well cultivated plot that may not be important, and if you cannot get the whole lot into cultivation the first year covered & manured will make planting that patch next winter much easier.  Plant Pumpkins / Squash on the area not being used (through cardboard / membrane). They will sprawl over a large area and cover it up :)  I would dig a hole and fill with soil / manure mix and plant into that.

Then uncover and dig as & when you can.  The cut grass will be starved of light in the meantime

Ellen K

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Re: New plot --- evil grass
« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2015, 10:40:37 »
I would strim it down and rake it up then, when it starts to grow actively again in a month or two, give it a MASSIVE SPRAYING with glyphosate.  Then start digging after a few more weeks.  Strim now and you should make it for full planting this year.

Anything else is going to be, well .... unrealistic.  Unless you have a lot of free time and friends with weeks to spend on the plot.

We have a lady on our site who has taken a grassy half plot and wants to be organic.  In spite of digging, growing through cardboard/manure and covering with carpet, the grass is still a pervasive as ever.

astraman1

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Re: New plot --- evil grass
« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2015, 15:42:59 »
when i took my plot on end of august last year it had been covered 3 ft high in weeds and grass mine is couch grass the first thing i did was buy some black plastic to chuck over the whole plot. the plot had been strimmed before i got there

then slowly but surely i am digging out all the roots and rolling back the plastic i now have a several apple and pear trees on there and as i roll back the plastic over the time its been covered its killed all the grass so i just have to remove the roots and i takle abit at a time and will plant as i go and when it comes round to end of this year ill did it all over again to remove anymore i find

Robert_Brenchley

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Re: New plot --- evil grass
« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2015, 17:54:54 »
Is it couch or tussocky stuff? Couch is normally shallow rooted unless someone's dug it in deep, which is very easily done. The roots are tough - you can use them as string - and easily got out with care, once you've got the numbers down to something manageable. Tussock grass is very vulnerable to mowing, and a lot easier to get rid of. The only thing to watch out for is that it seeds like mad.

johhnyco15

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Re: New plot --- evil grass
« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2015, 18:04:35 »
i had a 20ft by 160 ft plot covered in couch 3 years later its all gone i just kept digging and digging and digging now its all gone and its very easy to work
johhnyc015  may the plot be with you

Jayb

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Re: New plot --- evil grass
« Reply #13 on: January 25, 2015, 10:11:49 »
Beautiful flowers Johhnyco, very inspiring to what can be achieved.
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johhnyco15

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Re: New plot --- evil grass
« Reply #14 on: January 27, 2015, 12:13:22 »
just in the process of obtaining my third 160ft by 20  ft plot again its just one big couch grass bed will start edging this weekend and then its down to the hard bit hand digging the lot thanks for the comment jayb it was my first go at flowers got a bit of stick at first from the other allotmenteers at our place but once they all come out even the die hard veg men had to admit they looked good  so i guess ill be making a couch root mountain again lol 
johhnyc015  may the plot be with you

Digeroo

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Re: New plot --- evil grass
« Reply #15 on: January 28, 2015, 07:57:21 »
I would turn it over.  Then I would plant lots of courgettes and pumpkins on any area you have not managed to do anything else with.  They will have dealt with any grass whatever the type so the following year that area will be relatively weed free.

 

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