Author Topic: Can you grow veg in sand?  (Read 7076 times)

plotstoeat

  • Acre
  • ****
  • Posts: 364
Can you grow veg in sand?
« on: September 14, 2013, 10:25:21 »
A friend has offered me the use of some of his land as an allotment. It used to be a riding arena so is just sand over hardcore. There is a plentiful supply of farm manure. Would a mix of the two be good enough to grow veg, albeit limited a very limited range?

goodlife

  • Hectare
  • *****
  • Posts: 8,649
Re: Can you grow veg in sand?
« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2013, 11:29:51 »
It probably would be a little bit challenge...but do-able..pile some manure in heaps or shape them into longer 'raised beds' there now with addition of bone meal and any other organic matter (compost, straw, grass clippings etc) and let it wait until spring. Planting some squashes, pumpkins, courgettes and maybe even potatoes..maybe even runner beans in the first year would allow the 'stuff' to turn more soil like during the first year..and next year you would 'condition' it again with different things to get it suitable for other kind of crops.

Big Gee

  • Half Acre
  • ***
  • Posts: 159
  • Gardening knowledge unshared is lost forever
    • Aeron Vale Allotment Society
Re: Can you grow veg in sand?
« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2013, 12:45:19 »
A friend has offered me the use of some of his land as an allotment. It used to be a riding arena so is just sand over hardcore. There is a plentiful supply of farm manure. Would a mix of the two be good enough to grow veg, albeit limited a very limited range?

Pure sand has virtually no nutrients, however some root crops grow very well in sandy soil. There's a big difference between sandy soil with nutrients & just sand.

As 'goodlife' says it would be a real challenge and would require a lot of organic material added to it (well rotted manure, composted green garden/ kitchen waste etc.)

As you say that the area has sand from use as a riding arena it would be prudent to find out exactly what type of sand it is. If it was used purely as a surface covering then it may be low grade sea sand that has not been thoroughly washed - to get rid of the high salt content (sand for building or horticultural use has to be thoroughly washed to get rid of the salt).

Just a thought.

Digeroo

  • Hectare
  • *****
  • Posts: 9,578
  • Cotswolds - Gravel - Alkaline
Re: Can you grow veg in sand?
« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2013, 13:28:15 »
I remember driving along the beach at Dungeness and seeing various gorgeous gardens built on nothing but shingle.  It made me realize that you can grow things anywhere. 

I had a problem with weedkiller contamination three years ago and did very well growing courgettes and dwarf beans on straw bales with plastic sheeting underneath.   

Also part of my plot was pure unwashed gravel.  I just added a lot of manure on a 50:50 basis to the top spade depth.

The answer for me is huge quantities of bio matter, huge quantites of water and huge quantites of nutrients. 

If necessary you can grow in raised beds, containers or growbags.   People have gardens on roofs.   I cannot think of anything you cannot grow.

How long was it a riding arena, I would expect any salt to have washed out.  Hopefully has had several years of added horse droppings.   

The manure sounds great but be sure you test the manure by growing beans in it before mixing it in.  The weedkillers are still around.

The hardcore will mean it drains rather too easily.  Do you know what it consists of.  I garden over gravel (natural) it is like gardening in a sieve, the water simply disappears.   I use large amounts of mulching.

I once read that to test whether you have poor drainage you dig a hole and fill it with water.  If it is still there in 24 hours you have a problem with drainage.  For me if the water is visible for more than 20 seconds I would be surprised.   The hole will never ever fill with water.  London would float away long before it was full.

For root crops which do not like manure you can possibly use recycled compost.  You only need a V shaped trench.

I am sure with a bit of thought and quite a lot of effort you will soon have a lovely allotment.


plotstoeat

  • Acre
  • ****
  • Posts: 364
Re: Can you grow veg in sand?
« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2013, 14:43:04 »
Thanks for the advice and encouragement guys. Big Gee: the sand is definitely building sand as the tonne bags are still knocking about. Digeroo: it has not had horses on for at least five years to my knowledge. I was thinking along the same lines as Goodlife; pumpkins, cougettes and potatoes in raised beds. I have had great success this year with courgettes grown in manure and compost. I'll also try some carrots in recycled compost.

goodlife

  • Hectare
  • *****
  • Posts: 8,649
Re: Can you grow veg in sand?
« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2013, 15:19:06 »
I would not try in mix the sand within the bedding..but leave it as it is at the bottom and start growing the 'soil' level from that.
You don't even need solid edges for your 'raised beds just mounds of 'stuff' in 'lasagne' like layers  that will hold things together...particularly if you can get hold of some cardboard and add that like 'pasta sheets in your lasagne' beds :icon_cheers:
It helps too your growing success if you give your beds (in spring-early summer) some Fish, blood and bone meal to give more 'variety' of nutrients ..and during summer 'lashings' of liquid seaweed when you do watering. :drunken_smilie:
Seaweed will give lots of all sorts of micronutrients and minerals as well as act as 'booster/stimulator' and gets those plants really going :icon_cheers: Other than that it is just water, water and water....and remember to oil the wheel barrow wheel..you don't want it to squeak, announcing how heavy you veg yield is :glasses9:....makes people jealous...

Digeroo

  • Hectare
  • *****
  • Posts: 9,578
  • Cotswolds - Gravel - Alkaline
Re: Can you grow veg in sand?
« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2013, 15:29:58 »
You can certainly create gardens in tonne bags. There is somewhere in London where they have lots of them. 

http://inhabitat.com/lfa-2008-grow-bags-urban-allotments/

I will look forward to hearing how you are getting on.   

plotstoeat

  • Acre
  • ****
  • Posts: 364
Re: Can you grow veg in sand?
« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2013, 16:04:20 »
Nice one Goodlife: I'll look for some seaweed food at garden centre tomorrow. I have some vouchers to spend. I'll keep you posted with progress Digeroo and thanks for link.

Big Gee

  • Half Acre
  • ***
  • Posts: 159
  • Gardening knowledge unshared is lost forever
    • Aeron Vale Allotment Society
Re: Can you grow veg in sand?
« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2013, 01:44:49 »
I would not try in mix the sand within the bedding..but leave it as it is at the bottom and start growing the 'soil' level from that.
You don't even need solid edges for your 'raised beds just mounds of 'stuff' in 'lasagne' like layers  that will hold things together...particularly if you can get hold of some cardboard and add that like 'pasta sheets in your lasagne' beds :icon_cheers:
It helps too your growing success if you give your beds (in spring-early summer) some Fish, blood and bone meal to give more 'variety' of nutrients ..and during summer 'lashings' of liquid seaweed when you do watering. :drunken_smilie:
Seaweed will give lots of all sorts of micronutrients and minerals as well as act as 'booster/stimulator' and gets those plants really going :icon_cheers: Other than that it is just water, water and water....and remember to oil the wheel barrow wheel..you don't want it to squeak, announcing how heavy you veg yield is :glasses9:....makes people jealous...

That sounds good enough to eat!!! You've made me feel hungry with all those food based illustrations and references to blood, fish, bone & seaweed (we eat seaweed in this part of the world you know - laverbread).

plotstoeat

  • Acre
  • ****
  • Posts: 364
Re: Can you grow veg in sand?
« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2015, 13:12:24 »
Just thought I would post a follow up. I only managed to create two raised beds and successfully grew potatoes and pumpkins. I have added more compost and soil and I am planting strawberries in them this year.

goodlife

  • Hectare
  • *****
  • Posts: 8,649
Re: Can you grow veg in sand?
« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2015, 14:03:34 »
Quote
successfully grew potatoes and pumpkins :icon_cheers:
  :icon_cheers: :icon_thumleft: Did you take any photos of your beds with growth on?
Strawberries don't tend to produce their best crop in first year...are you going to let them be in same bed for few years? If so....the soil in the beds will need good TLC...spuds and pumpkins both being VERY greedy crops taking every little bit of available goodness out. But don't load lot of fertilizer at once...it just results huge leafy strawberry plants and rubbish berries. Little bit of 'snap' every now and then during growing season will do and if you carry on mulching around the plants...that should keep the plants happy for longer term.....and strawberries DO like seaweed as well  :glasses9:
And little bit of relevant not but maybe not that useful info....Olden days old market gardeners used to mulch their strawberry beds with washed seaweed, making big bulk of their yearly income from sale of their berries.

plotstoeat

  • Acre
  • ****
  • Posts: 364
Re: Can you grow veg in sand?
« Reply #11 on: January 31, 2015, 16:19:08 »
Quote
successfully grew potatoes and pumpkins :icon_cheers:
  :icon_cheers: :icon_thumleft: Did you take any photos of your beds with growth on?
Strawberries don't tend to produce their best crop in first year...are you going to let them be in same bed for few years? If so....the soil in the beds will need good TLC...spuds and pumpkins both being VERY greedy crops taking every little bit of available goodness out. But don't load lot of fertilizer at once...it just results huge leafy strawberry plants and rubbish berries. Little bit of 'snap' every now and then during growing season will do and if you carry on mulching around the plants...that should keep the plants happy for longer term.....and strawberries DO like seaweed as well  :glasses9:
And little bit of relevant not but maybe not that useful info....Olden days old market gardeners used to mulch their strawberry beds with washed seaweed, making big bulk of their yearly income from sale of their berries.

I didn't take photos so you'll have to take my word that I had four very large pumpkins; more than enough for me and my host. Thanks for the strawberry tips. I do intend to make it a permanent bed. On your recommendation, I did buy some seaweed liquid feed last year and was v impressed so thanks for that. My host has a huge pile of wood chips that sh be well washed by now so I'll use them for mulch.

Digeroo

  • Hectare
  • *****
  • Posts: 9,578
  • Cotswolds - Gravel - Alkaline
Re: Can you grow veg in sand?
« Reply #12 on: January 31, 2015, 17:20:11 »
Sounds like you are winning well done.  It is nice to hear how something turns out.

artichoke

  • Hectare
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,276
Re: Can you grow veg in sand?
« Reply #13 on: February 03, 2015, 19:04:58 »
I  moved heaven and earth to try to make a vegetable garden for my daughter in northern Germany, on the only flat area on their sloping land. I was known as "Pick Axe Granny" for my huge efforts in hacking into the hard ground. Not sand, but worse.

Turned out that the family before them had scraped off all the topsoil in order to make a level exercise ground for their horses.....so we were doomed to failure. But all the same, with copious applications of compost and manure, we have a productive fruit hedge (raspberries, gooseberries and blackcurrants) and at one time, potatoes. But I have to admit that the enterprise has failed.

Have you ever visited Dungeness? Huge seakale plants grow in the shingle; very deep roots, succulent leaves. Have tried here, but failed.

plotstoeat

  • Acre
  • ****
  • Posts: 364
Re: Can you grow veg in sand?
« Reply #14 on: February 03, 2015, 19:19:33 »
Dungeness: is that in Suffolk. Think I've been to bird reserve near there. Sounds like a great place to do some foraging. We saw lots of samphire down there. Lovely

artichoke

  • Hectare
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,276
Re: Can you grow veg in sand?
« Reply #15 on: February 05, 2015, 18:10:07 »
Dungeness is on the Kent coast, and as Digeroo wrote, the settlements in the area have some amazing gardens on deep shingle, the most famous being Derek Jarman's.

http://www.gardenvisit.com/garden/derek_jarman_garden_prospect_cottage_dungeness

successful because he used local plants that can cope with these conditions.

Digeroo

  • Hectare
  • *****
  • Posts: 9,578
  • Cotswolds - Gravel - Alkaline
Re: Can you grow veg in sand?
« Reply #16 on: February 06, 2015, 08:52:50 »
Presume the problem with growing in these adverse conditions is water and nutrients. 

In places like Egypt and Turkey they have amazing gardens round the hotels.  But they have copious amounts of the output from the sewage systems to deal with.  They are not allowed to let anything into the sea.  So there is a huge amount of water to be used up which presume has a high level of nutrients in it.  The plants are drip fed on a permanent basic.  So gardens can be produced in the most adverse of spots.  There is a gorgeous one in Turkey where they have turned a rather scubby, dry cliff face covered in rocks into the Garden of Eden.  The more you flush the more they have to spray. 

Large areas of Gran Canaria are becoming productive with the output from the hotels which use huge quantities of desalinated seawater.  The farmers get the water very cheaply it is basically paid for by the tourists.

I suppose what I am saying is that we should not let the output from our sewage go into the rivers.




plotstoeat

  • Acre
  • ****
  • Posts: 364
Re: Can you grow veg in sand?
« Reply #17 on: February 08, 2015, 16:53:37 »
"I suppose what I am saying is that we should not let the output from our sewage go into the rivers."

Digeroo : I do do that when there's nobody around!  :color:

Robert_Brenchley

  • Hectare
  • *****
  • Posts: 15,593
    • My blog
Re: Can you grow veg in sand?
« Reply #18 on: February 08, 2015, 20:16:01 »
Dont forget the salt at Dungeness. It gets blown inland anywhere near the sea and is a major problem for a lot of lkants.

 

SimplePortal 2.3.5 © 2008-2012, SimplePortal