Topic: To rotivate or not rotivate - that is the question?

[RowenaBland]

I have just taken on a new allotment and found an old rotivator in the shed, which has a broken belt, wondering if it is worthwhile getting it repaired and using it. Ground is currently just grass and need to get rid of this, have sections covered in matting, and suggestions to use Round up. Gardening on a tight budget too. not sure what to do ?

[grawrc]

Hi Rowen and welcome to A4A. Roundup (and any other weedkiller) will not be too effective at this time of year. Weedkillers work best when the things you are trying to kill are in full growth and the temperature is higher than now.

More importantly you should read up a bit about Roundup and Monsanto (the manufacturer) before considering using it. Despite what it may say on the container, Roundup is toxic. Have a look at articles like this http://www.naturalnews.com/035221_Roundup_soil_health_food_supply.html or this http://in.reuters.com/article/2012/02/13/france-pesticides-monsanto-idINDEE81C0FQ20120213.
Roundup is toxic. Please don't use it!! And Monsanto are morally corrupt. Bear in mind that you will be eating what you grow!

You say you have to get rid of grass. If it is just grass (or even if it is grass full of weeds) get a spade, lift the grass like turf and stack it in a corner of your plot. First layer face down, next face up and so on. Make a pile about 1 cubic metre, cover it with a tarpaulin or black plastic, then build another one. It will rot down in about a year and can go back into the soil. If there are nasty weeds in the grass like mares tail, thistles etc you will need to deal with them by digging them out and leaving them to dry out and die off.

Once you have removed the grass you can dig your soil (with a spade).

As far as I am concerned (and others may disagree) the main use of a rotavator is to produce a fine tilth (very finely broken up soil) once the digging has been done. Personally I don't use one at all: I dig and hoe, I add compost (your rotted down grass etc) and manure  and I mulch. All this is hard work but once the clearing and digging is done it gets a bit easier!!

Good luck with your plot!

[BarriedaleNick]

The issue you have at present is that you dont know what weeds you have as they are not in growth.  For all you know you may have bindweed or ground elder and if you rotivate you will just chop up and spread the roots around making the issue much worse come spring.

[gavinjconway]

Yep - I agree... dont rotavate till the digging and weed removal is done..

[goodlife]

Others have already answered the rotavating bit that I agree with...but if you are in tight budget, repairing old rotavator might me waste of time and money. If you don't know how long its been standing and what was wrong with it in first place..it will be 'lottery' job to get it going again. There is good possibility that the time you spend trying to get it going, you would get bed or two of soil turned over without any cost other than bit of elbow grease and cost of spade.
I'll add one bit for the rotavating...they are not recommended to be used during winter. Heavy wet soil can over load rotavator, particularly if it is 'light weight' model and rotavating this time of the year only result the soil structure being ruined...all those tiny tunnels that worms have made, they help the excess moisture to drain away. By rotavating this time of the year, the heavy weight of the soil will collapse those tunnels=spongy texture and if we still get loads of rain..you might just end up with one big mass of mud where life within won't carry on =dead soil. And try to get that going in spring...well...it will be slow job..

I'm sorry for sounding all doom and gloom...but seriously damaging the soil is possibility and its something many with rotavators don't realize. It is good tool when used correctly and in right time of the year.

[Ellen K]

^^ this was mine looked like when I got it.  I nuked it with roundup then started at the sunny end, digging and clearing.  Of course, this will be hard work but even if you have a 6 HP rotavator, you may find it is impossible to use on uncultivated ground.

Depending on the weather, you could start perhaps mid/end February.  It's too wet and cold to do much right now. 

Roundup is safe if used as directed on the pack.  I'm not advocating using it all the time instead of weeding.  But sometimes you need the help of proper science to overcome years of neglect.

[goodlife]

..plough is for turning heavy soil over and rotavator is more soil 'fluffing' machine for moist but not wet soil..

[kt.]

One of my plots is 110x35ft.  I cleared it by hand when I first took it over but now rotovate beds, though I do give them an initial clearing of any heavy weeds at the start of the season or planting.  I never rotovate my brassica bed though, always dig it by hand as I don't want the ground too loose.

[Nigel B]

Roundup is toxic. Please don't use it!! And Monsanto are morally corrupt. Bear in mind that you will be eating what you grow!

+1 

One of my plot near-neighbours uses the stuff. He's only a short bloke, like me, but makes up for it by swinging his watering-can-Roundup-mix shoulder high to spread it as far as he can. The plonker.

I'd strim it after digging out the big ugly stuff. Mark out the beds/paths and then rotavate if you must, but not if the temperature drops any.
The last thing you need to be doing is to rotavate ice into what was warm under-soil because, come spring, you'll be sowing seeds directly into that very same icy soil.

[Digeroo]

Welcome to A4A.

We have rotavaters and diggers on our site.   Most of the most productive allotments are diggers, apart  from about three very successful rotavaters.   Many of those who did rotavate only did it once.

I am a fan of worms, so will not like to use a rotavator. 

I would dig a test square to see what type of weed roots you find.  Need to know more about the type of grass we are taking about.  Couch grass roots can also be spread by rotavating.

Personally I like the peace and quiet without them and would cheerfully ban them.






 

[TheEssexYorkshireman]

My plot looked just like Ellen K's (see my gallery). I didn't use any chemicals just tarpaulins, weeds membrane, and plenty of "on my knees" digging. Dealing with a section at a time - clearing, planting, then moving on to the next 6' slice. It was a lot of hard work but, IMHO, the only way to do it.   

[aj]

Cheapest way is to cover with cardboard to kill the grass, and plant through digging out sections as you need them - for example to put carrots, parsnips, spring onions in but for courgettes, brassicas, pumpkins, potatoes, just cut a hole in the cardboard when you are ready to plant, dig out enough to put your seedling in, backfill, and mulch. 90% of the stuff under will die off by the next year. The stuff that doesn't will be perennial and you can dig that out as you harvest the goodies.

[RowenaBland]

Thank you for all those helpful messages. I think I will be trying to stick to the organic and cheaper method to start with. Really good advice. Will be using this forum on a regular basis!

[Robert_Brenchley]

Wedkiller won't do a thing now. Wait till April if you want to use the stuff. If you rotavate now, without knowing what's lurking, then the danger is that you can just chop the roots of some pernicious weed, every bit will grow, and you'll end up worse off than ever. That's one reason why it might be a bad choice, plus they won't always cope with permanent pasture. Get a bed prepared with a space, with the turf lifted and left to rot as suggested. The rotavator will still come in handy, so get it fixed, and try it out when you know what's in the ground. If you don't like the results you can still sell it.

[Ian Pearson]

I've had very good results using 'lazy beds' to clear turf. I've posted about it here:
http://oca-testbed.blogspot.co.uk/2012/04/breaking-new-ground-for-tuber-planting.html

Don't make them now though; the weeds will grow through before you are ready to plant out. Leave it till the day of planting. And of course this only works with weed suppressing crops such as potatoes, oca, etc.

But if you have plenty of time and energy, I'd 'rough dig' the whole plot as soon as the soil is dry enough (making sure you invert each spadeful so that weeds are placed as deep as possible), then fork out surviving weeds as you prepare individual beds in spring and summer.

[Toshofthe Wuffingas]

I'd mow/strim it when the weather allows. Digging long tufty grass is heavy work and one can easily get discouraged. Digging short trimmed grass is much more achievable. The mown grass is going to be a useful mulch or compost too. Then mark out your paths and beds. Going for a bed system means you can concentrate on small areas at a time and again it won't seem so daunting. When the time comes potatoes are famously a good clearing crop. A rough dig, plant, hoe while you can still see bare soil then the foliage shades out weeds then another dig to lift the crop ready for a summer planting of something else for later. I got 3 crops off one bit of my potato bed last year starting in April. Potatoes, then french beans then winter spinach.
The bits you can't dig, cover. Black permeable membrane or sheets of cardboard covered by mown grass for appearance. As has been said you can still make holes in the cover and plant courgettes, pumpkins etc. The lack of light will help to weaken or kill the weeds, making later work easier. Less work, quicker and cheaper than chemicals or machines.