Topic: Green Manure

[Digeroo]

I am trying to cover any bare patches with green manure.  What do you use and when do you sow it.

What will still grow after beans and courgettes.


I have got a kilo bag of mustard from Asian supermarket.

[manicscousers]

we've got phacelia, just. That'll be chopped down and covered until spring. We've now put red clover, trying underplanting the leeks with it and a couple of beds. These are for beans next year, I think so should be ok. Tried alfalfa and the plants were  very sparse and we did vetch a couple of years ago. It was great but very hard to dig in  :)

[boydzfish]

Haven't had much success with green manures so far. Planted clover but it didn't come to anything but have got some phacelia and white mustard for this year so any tips about planting would be appreciated. For instance are they just sown in freshly dug ground or will they need something to boost their growth?

[Ian Pearson]

I'm a big fan of Hungarian grazing rye; winter-hardy and lot of organic matter above and below ground. It's possible to sow it before the preceding crop has been removed - between rows of beans for example. By the time the beans are cut back, they should be sprouting. It can even be sown in modules then planted out when the bed is clear.
Weeds are also a good green manure!

[irridium]

I'm started to branch out on trying other types of green manures too as I've used Phacelia in the past couple of years. The soil at home and lotti are both free draining and loamy (bits of clay here n' there as well), but am rather confused by the different types. I'd like one that will fertilize the ground after the harvests and will overwinter, and help to suppress the weeds til Spring. Do you think Hungarian Rye be best? I'm wary of anything that will be too difficult to dig in where the roots will be too long and spreading to dig up.

I'm also looking to buy someone some for his heavy clay but with his bad back, I wouldn't want him to struggle with digging it in too much either..

any ideas? xx b ;)

ps. it's quite expensive to buy? where do you guys get yours from? is it best to buy in kilos?

[Ian Pearson]

Grazing rye can be difficult to dig in, but it can be treated in different ways; it can be dug in very early in spring before it gets tough. Or (my preferred method) it can be hoed off with a digging hoe. The following crop can then be planted through the crop debris (good with transplant crops such as tomatoes, onion sets, or module-raised salad crops.
Yes, the seed is expensive. Every second year I leave a square metre or so of the crop to mature and run to seed. This keeps me in seed for free, but occupies the ground for most of the growing season.

[Chrispy]

Yes, the seed is expensive. Every second year I leave a square metre or so of the crop to mature and run to seed. This keeps me in seed for free, but occupies the ground for most of the growing season.

If you can club together, it is worth buying a load from https://www.cotswoldseeds.com/.
Last year I bought a load of rye/vetch mix from them, enough for me for 2 years and some more to sell on to other plot holders.

[caroline7758]

I've used fenugreek a lot in the last few years- it grows quickly but is easy to dig in- and it smells nice. I buy it from my local Asian supermarket. I also like phacelia because the flowers are so lovely. This year i've also used calendula and borage on an ad hoc basis- they are getting so rampant on my plot that I hoe them off at the seedling stage and dig them in!

[irridium]

well, having looked on that cotswolds site and other places for research, think hungarian rye is the best one despite the fact they have big roots. i'll just have to work that bit harder then come early spring! :'(

thanks caroline for the fenugreek tip, it's a bit too late for me to get some to sow now as that's best til Aug. so they say (plus i don't think it overwinters).

might order 2kg of mixed vetch and rye from cotswolds for about a tenner (unfortunately, no-one i know wants to share my order as the p&p is £8!)

[Jeannine]

fall rye... it will smother weeds, take the frost and help the soil. In the spring, cut id down with a mower when anout a foot tall, then till in the roots, don't leave it longet though.

XX Jeannine

[Chrispy]

When in the earlier posts we refer to rye, we are referring to what Jeannine is calling fall rye, also known as forrage rye, or hungarian grazing rye.

Do not confuse it with rye grass, you can use rye grass as a green manure, and the seed is cheaper, but then you will need a tractor and plough.

[Toshofthe Wuffingas]

Today I bought a 100g packet of Johnson's green manure autumn mix for £2.09 at my local garden centre. It has 15% crimson clover, 20% broad leafed clover, 30% Westerwolths rye grass and 35% white Tilney mustard. It says it can cover 20 sq metres and can be sown September to early February.
I have already sown phacelia on cleared ground but will use this autumn mix for future cleared patches.

[irridium]

Do not confuse it with rye grass, you can use rye grass as a green manure, and the seed is cheaper, but then you will need a tractor and plough.

thanks for that, chrispy.
still haven't bought any yet as i'm in two minds about it being difficult to dig in. does the root system grow like grass then? coz i'm thinking that'll be a big deterrent for me as i'll have 5 big beds of this to sow and i wouldn't be wanting to spend early spring spending ages digging this in..

is there anything less arduous that would overwinter that i can sow instead? ;)

[bionear2]

Some folk who used grazing rye on our site last year said it was hard to dig in. The trick is to kill it, by hoeing off the top, as someone said (or spraying it with glyphosate, which also desiccates it) well before you want to turn over the soil.
It also produces a substance which inhibits small-seed germination, so you need to leave a month after its dug-in before sowing carrots, parsnips etc.