Author Topic: Clay -what to do ?  (Read 3121 times)

Celandine

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2
Clay -what to do ?
« on: October 28, 2010, 07:22:52 »
I have just taken over a new plot at my local allotment having moved from one which was a bit too far away. I have started to transfer my raspberries into the new plot and as per usual preparation I have dug down to 1 spade depth.I found that there is only 4-6 inches of topsoil in that area beneath which is yellow/grey clay.So I have dug out a further 4"-6" of clay from the bottom and replaced it with well rotted compost.I have piled the clay onto the surface and am wondering what to do with it. I have heard that you can sprinkle it with lime and allow the frost to break it down.Or else I could take it to the local recycling centre in the trailer. Any ideas ?

saddad

  • Hectare
  • *****
  • Posts: 17,884
  • Derby, Derbyshire (Strange, but true!)
Re: Clay -what to do ?
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2010, 08:00:57 »
I wouldn't advocate taking it to the tip, but that's a quick solution. You should try to avoid mixing that "subsoil" with the top soil as it is less fertile and hard for seedlings to establish in. You may just be in a part where it hasn't been worked, most lotties have an area like that. If it is like that over most of the plot you would do best "double digging". Take the top soil off to one side. Turn the sub soil, a fork is usually best, work in as much organic matter/sand/grit to lighten the clay and put the top soil back on top. Alternatively you can build up with raised beds..
Keep an eye on those raspberries as you may have unwittingly created a sump where water will collect and raspberries don't like being waterlogged..  :-X

Oh and welcome to A4A  :)

chriscross1966

  • Hectare
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,764
  • Visionhairy
Re: Clay -what to do ?
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2010, 08:44:09 »
Might be an idea to dig down and see how deep the clay layer is.  If it's shallow then punching through it every few metres will improve the drainage a lot ..

Otherwise as saddad points out you want to avoid sumpingand although it's not very fertile now if you work in plenty of manure it's water retaining properties adn density make it a great growing substrate for things like cabbages...

chrisc

lincsyokel2

  • Hectare
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,225
    • Read my blog at
Re: Clay -what to do ?
« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2010, 12:21:35 »
buy an pottery furnace and make your own pots!!!
Nothing is ever as it seems. With appropriate equations I can prove this.
Read my blog at http://www.freedebate.co.uk/blog/

SIGN THE PETITION: Punish War Remembrance crimes such as vandalising War memorials!!!   -  http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/22356

goodlife

  • Hectare
  • *****
  • Posts: 8,649
Re: Clay -what to do ?
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2010, 13:00:14 »
you could actually make your own furnace with clay and make the pots in it... ;D

Tee Gee

  • Hectare
  • *****
  • Posts: 6,926
  • Huddersfield - Light humus rich soil
    • The Gardener's Almanac
Re: Clay -what to do ?
« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2010, 14:50:20 »
This is what I would suggest but it will be bl**dy hard work!

This is what it is about;

http://www.thegardenersalmanac.co.uk/Data/Soil-Clay/Soil-Clay.htm

and this is what you do!

http://www.thegardenersalmanac.co.uk/Data/Digging%20techniques/Digging%20techniques.htm


Double dig!!.....as I said...........bl**dy hard work!

Celandine

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2
Re: Clay -what to do ?
« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2010, 18:57:35 »
Thanks for all the advice.Looks like some double digging then !!
I'll post a comment next autumn and let you all know how it went.

SMP1704

  • Hectare
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,341
  • Isleworth, Middlesex
    • Allotment Life
Re: Clay -what to do ?
« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2010, 19:33:50 »
You're going to make us a whole 12 months for an update? :o :o

Monthly with photos would be better and we can cheer you on when your muscles are screaming "no more, no more" ;D ;D

aj

  • Hectare
  • *****
  • Posts: 673
Re: Clay -what to do ?
« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2010, 20:16:27 »
I have just taken over a new plot at my local allotment having moved from one which was a bit too far away. I have started to transfer my raspberries into the new plot and as per usual preparation I have dug down to 1 spade depth.I found that there is only 4-6 inches of topsoil in that area beneath which is yellow/grey clay.So I have dug out a further 4"-6" of clay from the bottom and replaced it with well rotted compost.I have piled the clay onto the surface and am wondering what to do with it. I have heard that you can sprinkle it with lime and allow the frost to break it down.Or else I could take it to the local recycling centre in the trailer. Any ideas ?

I'd rejoice - clay is one of the best soils to have under your topsoil. We just had clay - no topsoil at all and I still grow loads of veg in there.

It holds water so doesn't dry out so much in summer, it holds nutrients so less feeding and gives brassicas a nice firm footing.

Why you dug it out I have no idea. But each to their own. Have you heard of mulching?

Digeroo

  • Hectare
  • *****
  • Posts: 9,578
  • Cotswolds - Gravel - Alkaline
Re: Clay -what to do ?
« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2010, 22:17:19 »
Sea weed is supposed to help with clay. 

At a previous house we had huge lumps of the stuff.  I was very pleased to find that the winter frosts started breaking up the clay.  However it unfortunately reformed again in the spring.   But as aj said grew great cabbages in that garden as well as lots of other veg.

Have you thought about raised beds to increase the soil depth and drainage?

pigeonseed

  • Hectare
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,793
  • Hastings
Re: Clay -what to do ?
« Reply #10 on: October 30, 2010, 12:58:04 »
Yes I've moved from a fine, sandy soil to heavy clay, and found that I can grow things I never could before - anything like lettuces, coriander - stuff which goes to seed easily or wilts in hot weather. So it's definitely got its plus points!

I think I'd rather improve the quality of clay than improve that dusty stuff I had before.

blackcountrysteve

  • Quarter Acre
  • **
  • Posts: 91
Re: Clay -what to do ?
« Reply #11 on: October 30, 2010, 17:51:12 »
nothing better for me than this time of year, when you do plenty of digging
your arms,legs and back will all be aching....you'll be as fit as a fiddle in no time
good luck !

BoardStupid

  • Half Acre
  • ***
  • Posts: 140
Re: Clay -what to do ?
« Reply #12 on: October 31, 2010, 07:24:54 »
Clay as said above is very nutritious soil. Shame it's such a pig to work with.

Only real way to deal with it is double "bastard" dig it bit by bit adding as much organic material as
you can get your hands on.

Other way might be to look at raised beds to obtain a good level of top matter
If it's not on fire it's a software problem

Vinlander

  • Hectare
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,750
  • North London - heavy but fertile clay
Re: Clay -what to do ?
« Reply #13 on: November 01, 2010, 00:23:40 »
It depends on what you want to grow on it.

Eg:

Broad beans will often cope with the heaviest clay and produce a reasonable crop providing it isn't completely impoverished (rare) - but they will do better with some organic matter to open it up.

Slightly smaller seeds  need a bit of help - sprinkling lime will break up the surface, remove stickyness and create a shallow tilth for seedlings, but the seedlings have to be tough enough eg. parsnips - to force their way through the heavier layer beneath.

Some plants  like peas or french beans or squash are more fussy - despite large seeds they will only cope with clay if each seed or transplant has a litre or two of really well cultivated soil or compost to grow through and gain strength before they hit clay. So you concentrate your improvements in a planting matrix - don't spread them too thin.

Unfortunately you can't mix lime with manure (or even really rich/fresh compost) - the reaction will send all the goodness into the air as stinky ammonia etc. - so that method of getting both benefits at once is closed.

However you can mix gypsum with manure - it breaks up clay and actually helps to lock the manure's goodness into the soil.

The problem is that horticultural gypsum is ridiculously expensive because the suppliers are competing with the plaster (burnt gypsum) industry.

The good news is that old plaster still contains useful gypsum - it isn't necessarily as good as raw gypsum, but the useless part is no harm - so you can pulverise old plasterboard and use it with no ill effects.

I'm going to do some experiments this winter to find out if pulverised pasterboard is 10% as good as raw gypsum or 90% as good.

But even before the proper results I can tell it is worth a try.

Cheers.
With a microholding you always get too much or bugger-all. (I'm fed up calling it an allotment garden - it just encourages the tidy-police).

The simple/complex split is more & more important: Simple fertilisers Poor, complex ones Good. Simple (old) poisons predictable, others (new) the opposite.

aj

  • Hectare
  • *****
  • Posts: 673
Re: Clay -what to do ?
« Reply #14 on: November 01, 2010, 06:51:30 »
Clay as said above is very nutritious soil. Shame it's such a pig to work with.

Only real way to deal with it is double "bastard" dig it bit by bit adding as much organic material as
you can get your hands on.

Other way might be to look at raised beds to obtain a good level of top matter

Not necessarily - we've not double dug and that just brings up thicker clay.

I grow in modules, use a bulb planter to take a plug of clay out when the root ball is just filling the module and 'reseal' the planting hole back up with the clay from the plug. Also, I add as much organic to the top layer [coffee ground, cardboard, sawdust] and over time the worms take it down and into the soil. Also mulch and grow in beds so that the clay under the paths is just left, and the soil in the beds is added to and mulched and improves over time.

It's taken 2 full years for the soil to be thick enough to warrant sides round the beds; and now the levels are starting to come up to half the level of the full bed height.


I'm not saying it's wrong, it's just not the only way and with my injury I'd never be able to double dig all my beds.

 

anything
SimplePortal 2.3.5 © 2008-2012, SimplePortal