Author Topic: Legality of taking a knife to the allotment  (Read 9941 times)

OllieC

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Legality of taking a knife to the allotment
« on: January 29, 2010, 22:15:13 »
I was out for a few drinks last night & got talking to a few trainee new recruits for the local police... We were discussing some "what if's" and I was surprised to be told that it is illegal to go to the allotment in my accustomed manner with a caving knife in the boot. It's a bit hard to cut cabbages without a knife!

Am I alone in being unaware of this? I'd always thought it was okay if you had a reasonable justification, but apparently that's just if it's a "tool of your trade".

Ninnyscrops.

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Re: Legality of taking a knife to the allotment
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2010, 22:29:48 »
Well my curved knife lives in my gardening jacket and hubby bought me an asparagus knife for Christmas.........am I in double trouble  ???

Ninny

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Re: Legality of taking a knife to the allotment
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2010, 22:34:49 »
I don't think they're quite right.

S.139 Criminal Justice Act 1988

Offence of having article with blade or point in public place

(1) Subject to subsections (4) and (5) below, any person who has an article to which this section applies with him in a public place shall be guilty of an offence.

(2) Subject to subsection (3) below, this section applies to any article which has a blade or is sharply pointed except a folding pocketknife.

(3) This section applies to a folding pocketknife if the cutting edge of its blade exceeds 3 inches.

(4) It shall be a defence for a person charged with an offence under this section to prove that he had good reason or lawful authority for having the article with him in a public place.

(5) Without prejudice to the generality of subsection (4) above, it shall be a defence for a person charged with an offence under this section to prove that he had the article with him—

(a) for use at work;

(b) for religious reasons; or

(c) as part of any national costume.


You'd have to prove that you hade the knife with you for a good reason, but if you're in your wellies walking to the allotment that's not going to be too difficult is it?  Of course, if you're walking through Guildford High Street and tell them you're on the way to the allotment then that's not likely to wash.  Safest thing is to keep the knife at the allotment - that doesn't constitute and offence - and then only use it there.

Folding pen knives with blades less than 3" are exempt - unless a counstable believes you intend using it as an offensive weapon, and then that's an offence.
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lewic

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Re: Legality of taking a knife to the allotment
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2010, 22:39:43 »
I think the phrase "trainee new recruits" is key here!

Invite them to the plot and ask them to help you harvest your slug-ridden cabbages. With a plastic spoon.

Ninnyscrops.

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Re: Legality of taking a knife to the allotment
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2010, 22:52:30 »
I think the phrase "trainee new recruits" is key here!

Invite them to the plot and ask them to help you harvest your slug-ridden cabbages. With a plastic spoon.

or a truncheon?

saddad

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Re: Legality of taking a knife to the allotment
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2010, 00:12:31 »
OH used to walk to college with a 10",  an 8", a 6" and a 4" inch knife not to mention the peeler and the palate knife and the steel.  Fortunately it was before 1988  ::)

Mr Smith

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Re: Legality of taking a knife to the allotment
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2010, 07:56:31 »
I take along a Machete which is enclosed in a sheath locked in the boot, also an hedging tool and pen knife in my pocket, obviously they are new recruits, :)

Digeroo

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Re: Legality of taking a knife to the allotment
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2010, 08:04:18 »
I would be very nervous of leaving a knife at the allotment.  There is no lock and groups of local lads hang around the seat at the end of the lane.   

I do feel a wary of walking past them carrying a knife.  Tend to keep it well down the bottom of my harvest bucket.

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Re: Legality of taking a knife to the allotment
« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2010, 08:35:19 »
Hi all, :)

I use small knives from the pound shop on the plot but a few weeks ago I took my biggest kitchen knife there to slice a big pumpkin for distribution to other plot holders.

I was shocked to remember about three days later that it was still in my rucksack as I headed for tesco with my wife. I thought it might set off the doorway detectors but it didn`t. That would have been intresting to explain.

I was even more shocked to realise a few days later I`d forgotten to take it out of my bag and was again walking around the city centre with a concealed weapon.

Is forgetfulness a defence in law?

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Re: Legality of taking a knife to the allotment
« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2010, 11:52:26 »
Is forgetfulness a defence in law?
Almost certainly not.
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Columbus

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Re: Legality of taking a knife to the allotment
« Reply #10 on: January 30, 2010, 12:12:09 »
I best not make that same mistake again then  :-[
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Unwashed

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Re: Legality of taking a knife to the allotment
« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2010, 12:16:47 »
I'd be surprised if we'd not all made the same mistake; I'm sure I have.  Makes you think.  And they talk about making possession a mandatory jail term.   :-\
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tonybloke

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Re: Legality of taking a knife to the allotment
« Reply #12 on: January 30, 2010, 12:24:51 »
Quote
Is forgetfulness a defence in law?

nope, and neither is ignorance!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignorantia_juris_non_excusat
You couldn't make it up!

Unwashed

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Re: Legality of taking a knife to the allotment
« Reply #13 on: January 30, 2010, 12:29:03 »
I think I'll just take my lightsaber and rely on the "religeous reasons" defence.

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OllieC

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Re: Legality of taking a knife to the allotment
« Reply #14 on: January 30, 2010, 12:45:03 »
We don't have sheds - and leaving a knife there is more likely to result in it getting into the wrong hands than if I carry it there & back.

These particular guys were very much trainees - and the power & several pints had clearly gone to their heads a bit. Two of them were sound though, one of them was a bit of a thingy which the two sound ones found embarrassing & kept apologising for! But they will be officers soon & it was what they thought.

I have walked through the park with a knife under the pushchair before - on my way to the allotment. I think it's worth at least taking a shorter knife in future & not through the park (past the kids play area)! I have learnt that it's not always that easy to reason with the police, even if your intentions were entirely legal, and if there's any grey area I stay well clear!

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Re: Legality of taking a knife to the allotment
« Reply #15 on: January 30, 2010, 17:03:11 »
These particular guys were very much trainees - and the power & several pints had clearly gone to their heads a bit. Two of them were sound though, one of them was a bit of a thingy which the two sound ones found embarrassing & kept apologising for! But they will be officers soon & it was what they thought.

Hopefully there will be a sensible Sergeant or Inspector around to stop them making fools of themselves.
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ACE

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Re: Legality of taking a knife to the allotment
« Reply #16 on: January 30, 2010, 17:16:30 »
You would have to be stopped first. That puts 99.9% of us on here in the clear, then if you are stopped and have a good reason for carrying it nearly every public prosecutor would throw it out before it went to court. There would be exceptions like being under the influence  or being gobby to the copper.

If the law was to be upheld to the letter. Nobody would be able to even buy a knife as you would not be able to transport it home from the shop.

Chrispy

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Re: Legality of taking a knife to the allotment
« Reply #17 on: January 30, 2010, 17:24:28 »
If the law was to be upheld to the letter. Nobody would be able to even buy a knife as you would not be able to transport it home from the shop.
Law says it is fine if you have 'Good cause', taking home after purchase is a faily good cause.

If you are worried, take a bread knife, I'm sure it would do the job just a well and is less likely to be considered an offensive weapon.

BTW Ollie, which site is your plot on? I'm on the Aldershot Road one.
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Re: Legality of taking a knife to the allotment
« Reply #18 on: January 30, 2010, 18:10:58 »
If you are worried, take a bread knife, I'm sure it would do the job just a well and is less likely to be considered an offensive weapon.

The Criminal Justice Act S.139 offence of carrying a knife in public has nothing whatsoever to do with offensive weapons.  The police officer doesn't have to make a judgement that what you're carrying is an offensive weapon, he only has to decide that it's an article which has a blade or is sharply pointed.
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OllieC

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Re: Legality of taking a knife to the allotment
« Reply #19 on: January 30, 2010, 18:18:30 »

BTW Ollie, which site is your plot on? I'm on the Aldershot Road one.

I'm down at the Lido mate... just the other side of Stoke Park.

 

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