Topic: what counts as "cultivated"?

[pookienoodle]

Hi All,
just reading through the contract for my new lottie.
It is an old site that has been reopened after many years laying unworked.
The contract states that

• work has to be started on the plot within 6 weeks
• more than half the plot has to be "fully cultivated" within 6 months.

I have no problem with the first,but I had the intention of doing the plot bit by bit to make sure I do a good job and really get the soil to a good standard.
I also have an area I want to plant permenant items in but don't want to rush it to get it right,also I will reserve an area for the shed but I will not be able to afford that in the first 6 months.
so my question is
what counts as cultivated?

[ceres]

Cleared, growing produce (or ready for growing) and being maintained (weeded, grass cut etc.).

They're not asking for anything too onerous with half the plot in 6 months and you have all winter to get it done so that you can get sowing in the spring.  If your permanent area is for fruit, autumn/winter is the time to get them in.  If you don't put them in this autumn/winter it's a full year before you can next plant them so you lose a year of cropping.  Peg out your area for the shed and cover it up with weed membrane/plastic so it's clear it's an area you have a plan for.  If you change your mind about something, if something doesn't work, just move it.  Improving the soil is a year-on-year process, if you wait until it's perfect you'll never plant anything!  Get stuck in, there are things you can plant now - garlic, onions, peas, broad beans, oriental leaves - just seeing them growing is a big motivator.  Good luck and most of all enjoy!       

[Chrispy]

more than half the plot has to be "fully cultivated" within 6 months.

These seems unfair, considering the time of year, if it is an old site, then you are unlikly to get much growing in 6 month (End March).
I am sure as long as it is clear you are working on it, I don't think you need to worry.

Having said that, the idea of doing it bit by bit to get the soil to a good standard is a bad idea.
I have seen other try, and then give up or just leave.

Getting as much of the plot dug over as possible this autumn will help a lot come spring, especialy if you have heavy soil.
Then come spring, get some things planted, even if it is just a green manure.

And just because you want some perminant planting later, you can still plant with other stuff in the mean time, a green manure also helps improve the soil.

[Eristic]

I think they are being over generous. It should be at least 75% in 6 months or 50% in 3 months.

If a person is not able to get a plot 50% cultivated in half a year they are not going to make it and should take a smaller plot. Lets face it. a few weekends work will clear the grass and brambles then a few more weekends will get a substantial amount of digging done.

It's funny how all those sitting on the waiting list do nothing but bellyache about all the uncultivated plots they can see, yet as soon as they get a plot they want nothing more than let their plot lie fallow. Get stuck in. Less talk, more digging. Once its done, its done, otherwise you will be fighting nature until nature or the site agent breaks you.

[Psi (Pronounced 'Si'!)]

i think if you dig and weed then that would be quite enough.  Who says you need to grow stuff over winter anyway?

[pookienoodle]

thanks,
i have ordered some green manure to use.
I am a bit confused as some people seem to advocate the bit by bit approach and overs say just get it dug over and don't worry about it.
I am concerned about making sure all the Perennial weeds are out of the soil before planting.
good ides about marking out for the shed,I can just guesstimate an area and then change it when the time comes.
 I would like an extensive area for soft fruit and wan  ted to plan the planting and erect a fruit cage,I suppose I can plant a few and add to them later.

[macmac]

Hi Pookienoodle do you know your site rep?or what about the person/office that let you the plot.Someone must do plot inspections to determine whether standards are being met they are the people to discuss your intentions with.We're lucky our site rep is "my favourite welshman" who is on his plot most days for newbies to get any info they need.All that said many sites have lots of plots that are supposed to be cultivated and aren't you only have to read a thread on this forum titled "unworked plots " :(

[pookienoodle]

I think they are being over generous. It should be at least 75% in 6 months or 50% in 3 months.

If a person is not able to get a plot 50% cultivated in half a year they are not going to make it and should take a smaller plot. Lets face it. a few weekends work will clear the grass and brambles then a few more weekends will get a substantial amount of digging done.

It's funny how all those sitting on the waiting list do nothing but bellyache about all the uncultivated plots they can see, yet as soon as they get a plot they want nothing more than let their plot lie fallow. Get stuck in. Less talk, more digging. Once its done, its done, otherwise you will be fighting nature until nature or the site agent breaks you.

I hope the bellyacheing remark was not aimed at me personally,I was just asking what was considered cultivated.
I cannot do "more digging" as I don't have the key yet.
FYI my area no longer does half plots,they are now doing all new plots as 7 poles.
I am sure there is a lot more chance of "nature breaking" me if I rush things and end up with beds full of dandelions and deadly nightshade.

[ceres]

I think the 'bit by bit' approach means not trying to dig it all over in a weekend and killing yourself in the process.  'Little and often' is perhaps a better way to describe it.  If you have the  means, cover the area which will start to weaken the weeds and roll back the covering as you clear and dig.  You'll never get all the perennial weeds out first time so it's not worth trying.  Whatever weeds are left are easily dealt with by weeding and hoeing.  

[Psi (Pronounced 'Si'!)]

Pookie

I always think its better to properly dig half a plot than badly dig the whole lot.  It really is worth getting all the perenial weeds out at the earliest opportunity and then redig them out at intervals.  Might well be ideal to get digging in one area and then plant an area with raspberries/fruit trees to keep anyone off your back!  Top tip is that both Aldi and Lidl sell excellent fruit bushes (gooseberries, currants, raspberries etc) and trees (apple, pear, cherry etc) over the winter so it is worth waiting for them to come along - the trees are about £3 each only.  I got a few last year and have espalliered them and they are great.  That might be a way of cultivating a large area fast.

Seriously do not follow advice to dig the whole lot - if you are like me and work full time and have kids and all the related drains on time you will never get it all dug over the winter.  I spent most saturdays down there last winter and I only really dug 1/2 to 2/3 of the plot properly - any areas I dug quickly were soon back under weeds.  The trick is being realistic - you'll get an idea of what you can did and how quickly pretty soon.  Digging the whole lot will come in time.

Good luck - hope it goes well and please drop me a message if you ever need advice.

Psi

[macmac]

P.S Pookie remember having an allotment is meant to be a pleasure (as well as the hard work) enjoy :)

[ceres]

Seriously do not follow advice to dig the whole lot

Psi, if you read back, no-one has actually suggested that.

[pookienoodle]

thanks for all the advice,
I do want to get it right as I was brought up to believe that poor soil=poor produce.
I was a grower of prize winning veg as a child but it had been a while since I did anything other than a few toms in my tiny back garden. ;D
the stern lessons of the traditional allotment holders of my youth still ring in my ears.
I will try the little by little approach and play it by ear.
thanks for the tip about the lidl fruit bushes..I always assumed they must be carp.

[Trevor_D]

Some sensible advice from macmac - find out who's in charge and talk to them. Most sites have regulations, but it's how they are interpreted that's important.

My job as Secretary is to keep plots filled and get the land cultivated. If I go along spouting regulations and counting weeds, I'm shooting myself in the foot and not doing any favours to the newcomers, the existing members or the site as a whole. I'd much rather spend hours talking things through with newcomers, which also helps them feel welcome and appreciated.

And like most of the others have said, be thorough. In my book the important thing is how often you appear and do some work!

[Psi (Pronounced 'Si'!)]

Seriously do not follow advice to dig the whole lot

Psi, if you read back, no-one has actually suggested that.

Ceres, indeed.  Are you the new Poirot?

[Mrs Soup]

I think they are being over generous. It should be at least 75% in 6 months or 50% in 3 months.

If a person is not able to get a plot 50% cultivated in half a year they are not going to make it and should take a smaller plot. Lets face it. a few weekends work will clear the grass and brambles then a few more weekends will get a substantial amount of digging done.

If you can get a plot which hasn't been worked in a long time it clear in a few weekends, I am very impressed.

My plot hadn't been worked in at least 10 years, was completely covered in couch and had topsoil and couch over the half rotten carpet on some sections. It was taking about an hour to clear each square metre to a sensible standard. 5 years on, I have finally all 10 perch clear and planted.

Sure you can turn it over very quickly, and if you've only got annual weeds then that's all that is needed, but to make such a sweeping statement surely sets too high a bar for sensible aspirations and will only serve to discourage.

The newest newbie with us has just taken on a similar area to mine, if he gets 3 perch clear by spring then he'll be doing well.

[Rhubarb Thrasher]

I agree it's better to have half done well than struggle with the lot, but it depends how fit and how much time you have.
Whatever cultivated means, it surely doesn't mean planted with things. It's perfectly reasonable on a new plot or even an established one, to have nothing growing there at all end of March

[ceres]

Seriously do not follow advice to dig the whole lot

Psi, if you read back, no-one has actually suggested that.

Ceres, indeed.  Are you the new Poirot?

No, I don't have the moustache for it, even on a bad day  ;)

Just don't understand why it's necessary to mis-represent the words of others to make your own point.

[Psi (Pronounced 'Si'!)]

Seriously do not follow advice to dig the whole lot

Psi, if you read back, no-one has actually suggested that.

Ceres, indeed.  Are you the new Poirot?

No, I don't have the moustache for it, even on a bad day  ;)

Just don't understand why it's necessary to mis-represent the words of others to make your own point.

That was never the intention, I merely wanted to suggest digging part and doing what you can with the time you have is the key.  Many new plot holders feel pressured to work miracles quickly when in fact they ought to be encouraged as much as possible.  I'm sorry if I touched a raw nerve.  Apologies.

[chriscross1966]

There are lots of things that will grow through weed-supressing plastic if you put it down. I grew my squash (see photo in thread in Edibles) by basically covering over an area having strimmed it and making a few piles of manure on it literally, just tip out a barrowful straight onto the strimmed area. Don't clear off the strimmed weed tops either. Not a bad idea to cover the strimmed area weith cardboard or newspaper first but I only did that on the bit near the pumpkin plant. The manure was fresh horse BTW. PUt the plastic over the top of the lot of it held down with pallets. Started the squash plants off in mid-late April in the GH in 3" pots, potted on into 6" pots once the root appeared at the bottom of the 3" and hardened off at home in their 6" pots through mid May. Took them to the plot at the end of May, used a craft knife to cut a small cross in the plastic over the top of each manure pile adn planted the squash straight into that.
Result was a decent squash crop, almost no weeds made it through (a couple of thistles that have been treated savagely) and there's not a lot of signs of weed roots left in the soil.... some bindweed made it through a summer with no light but that's about it.....

Did pretty much the same with potatos and although the yield wasn't great there's almost no weed left in there now.....

But that was nearly a third of my plot with crops on and not a fork in sight :D I'll be using similar techniques next year to clear the bit that's not had much happen too it except weedmulch this year, but as I plan on it being the fruit area in the long term I'm not so fussed about being in a hurry for it.....

Also if you have access to a decently sized form of transport and there's an active Freecycle scene in your area then you should be able to pick up builders bags (1 cubic metre bags) and topsoil being removed from other peoples gardens (they're digging a pond, or want a sunken area or whatever) .... You can sit them on top of weedmulch and not only do they hold it in place and smother anything under it but you can grow decent onions, sweetcorn and potatos in them.... the only reason I lost a tomato crop in them was because of blight.... I'll be using that technique again too.... though they do need more watering than crops in the flat....

chrisc

chrisc