Hormone Weedkiller in Manure

[Columbus]

Hi all,

My plot neighbours have suffered the same curled leaf effect in toms grown in bags of organic composted manure from a local garden centre.  The toms afffected are a beefsteak variety, a cherry variety in the same organic product are not affected at the moment. Others grown in the other half of the greenhouse in another brand of compost have also not suffered.

This seems to offer more evidence that the problem exists in bagged products too.

Col

[ceres]

Col
Thanks for the info - sorry your neighbours have got this too and from bagged compost.  Could you please persuade them that they must report it to the PSD who are saying that they haven't had many suggestions that bagged products are the source.  They can contact the PSD here:

information@psd.hse.gsi.gov.uk

It would also be worth them contacting Dow here:

ukhotline@dow.com

[Trevor_D]

It definitely is in bagged compost.

I haven't suffered this year, but did - quite badly - last year. Two of the tomatoes effected were in the greenhouse at the allotment, which is why I initially suspected that it might be wind-borne. But the Defra representative who came to the site was adamant that it was hormone weedkiller from the manure from our on-site stables.

But I don't use stable manure in the greenhouse. The plants were in 10-inch pots. But now I have a bit more knowledge I've realised that the compost the effected tomatoes were planted in was two-thirds commercial compost & one-third re-cycled Borough compost.

Aminopyralid is only available to farmers; but copyralid is in all manner of preparations available to the general public, eg Vitax and other "feed & weeds". So we feed & weed our lawn, cut the grass and - being good green citizens - put it in the bag for the council to collect....

I feel there's a lot more in this than meets the eye. Keep asking questions folks....

[Paulines7]

apologies if this has already been posted somewhere else ...

fyi - somebody has started an e-petition asking for aminopyralid to be banned.

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/Aminopyralid/

e-petitions are a 10 Downing St initiative. You can "sign" the petition.

Bak, thanks for putting the link in to the petition which I have signed.
I personally haven't been affected by the weedkiller as I don't buy in manure.  I rot down the straw and muck that my chickens produce and also let them into the plots to clear the weeds.

It bothers me though that this weedkiller is still in the hay when it is fed to animals that we eat, so please sign it A4A members and any of the many unregistered viewers who frequent this site.

 

[Kea]

I just want to bring this back to the top and highlight the petition for those that might have missed it.

[twinkletoes]

Yep - I have now....
twinkletoes

[Flunky]

OMG i was the 666th person. I hope nothing happens to me !!!!!

[coznbob]

701...   Keep going!

[MrsKP]

I had been down south for a week when I paid attention to this thread.  Before I left glasgow, I had suffered some failure with some spud plants but next door plot guru had put it down to Black Rot. 

While I was down south though, I met an allotmenteer and asked him if he had experienced any catastrophic failures.  He hadn't (but then he hadn't manured either), but there were a few plots surrounding him that were having problems with their toms.  He nearly spilled his pint when I started describing the symptoms and is running off back to his plot with the name on a bit of paper to ask a few more questions.

I got up to my plot yesterday and thankfully nothing untoward appears to have happened since my depature.  No more spuds failing and beans look ok.  I am breathing a sigh of relief as I had manured about 3/4 of my tiny plot last autumn and if i'd have lost the lot I would have been devastated.

Thanks so much to Ceres and everyone else for doing the spade work for us and hope those who have been affected have the strength to carry on.  I use numerous bags of compost in the garden so am equally concerned about which ones I should be avoiding (or doesn't it seem to be brand specific).

I have signed the petition.

Will keep eyes and ears peeled.

MrsKP

[twinkletoes]

Question for you Ceres I think.  You said that the manure needs to break down in soil to neutralise it (I think) so, I have a small amount of manure maybe 3 wheelbarrow loads - how much soil would need to be mixed in with it to get the manure to break down.......sorry, not very good with this scientific speak 
My idea would be to mix soil in with the manure and leave it so the soil and manure together do their stuff and render the manure unharmful - so I can use it on the lottie..........what do you think?
twinkletoes

[Robert_Brenchley]

I think it's more a question of time. From what I'm reading, I think it would break down in a couple of years, but I wouldn't swear to that. Meanwhile, I wouldn't want contaminated manure on my plot, in any quantity! If I had it at all, it would stay strictly in its pile until it was well and truly rotted down.

[ceres]

As Robert says, it's a time thing.  First the straw needs to rot down completely.  When that has happened, the herbicide disappears into the soil as harmless compounds.  How long the straw will take to rot depends on a number of variables - the weather, the type of soil you have, how much manure, how much straw in the manure, what kind of manure etc. etc.  The recommended way to speed up the process in already manured soil is to dig or rotovate, then dig or rotovate again, and again, and again........ as many times as you can manage before the next growing season.

There is no formula that I'm aware of for 'neutralising' the weedkiller with soil.  My personal opinion is that doing what you suggest will be a very slow process.  Effectively you are stacking the manure, albeit with a bit of soil.  The professional advice is that stacking is not a good option.

If you know your manure is affected, why are you even considering using it?  There is no way I would risk it, having lost one season already and lined up to lose next year too.  Have you tried getting your supplier to take it away?  They at least have the option of spreading it on pasture.  If your supplier won't take it away, you can dispose of it in the household waste - not green waste.  Does your site provide skips?.

[twinkletoes]

Oh, no.  I don't have any contaminated manure - it was just a thought......   Not enough to do at work and my mind was wandering a bit.....   Sorry to have wasted your time...
twinkletoes

[ceres]

It's not a waste of time TT - if I thought it was, I wouldn't be doing it!  All these questions need to be asked or next year the same thing will be happening all over again.

[glallotments]

Just in case you haven't heard below is a extract from an answer given by Phil Woolas to a question asked in Parliament from Tim Loughton MP.

Quote:
The manufacturer has indicated that they are withdrawing products which contain aminopyralid from sale and PSD is formally suspending their authorisations while they investigate the options for preventing a recurrence of this problem. A key issue in their consideration will be whether the conditions of use regarding manure are sufficient, or sufficiently well known. End of quote

So we have a temporary withdrawals and suspension. It is also worth noting that now the figure of complaiants quoted is 90 still on the low side I think - so keep sending in reports to the PSD.

[ceres]

Too late    There's a new thread here:

http://www.allotments4all.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=44158

[glallotments]

Sorry Ceres,
I thought that you would post something and kept looking so when you hadn't I did.
Didn't think to look for another thread!

[ceres]

Interesting article here:

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/article.php?aid=263655&cid=397

A commercial compost company that has a contract for the horse manure from a big livery stable has asked the stable to sign a declaration that it doesn't buy in any feed that has been sprayed with aminopyralid.  Good news, I think.  Word is continuing to spread.

These next 2 links were on gl's blog today.  Views from the other side of the fence:

http://farmingforum.co.uk/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1216327369

http://farmingforum.co.uk/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1215526532

"It is very likely that alll the tales in the press which we can be sure are grossly exaggerated by the organic brigade etc ......."

"a(t) least they wont have dock in their carrots, they should count their blessings

Have poeple got nothing better to moan about"

"Not any more, the allotment lot have got their way and Dow have pulled it."
 

[manicscousers]

just received a magazine from nsalg, there is an article in there, by trevor dixon, says last year's damage was very serious, this year's more limited, don't think they know about your problems, might be worth an e mail to them ?

[ceres]

Hi manics.  Is that magazine Allotment & Leisure Gardener from the NSALG?  If so, I gave up with them.   I wrote to them around the same time I wrote to loads of other bodies.  I said I was surprised that there was nothing on their website about the issue and asking what they were doing to help us.  I got a really snotty reply back from them saying:

"See the letter to DEFRA, annexed.  See also my article in the forthcoming ‘Allotment and Leisure Gardner’.  Is this pro-active enough for you ?"

What's even worse is that they got both the letter and article FACTUALLY wrong.  Aminopyralid is not another name for Clopyralid.  They are different chemicals, used differently and with different effects.

If they are now saying that last year was worse, I think they are a lost cause.