Author Topic: Catastrophic Potato Problem  (Read 60247 times)

Sinbad7

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Re: Catastrophic Potato Problem
« Reply #40 on: June 06, 2008, 10:46:31 »
Thanks for that ceres, will try to find out.

But, why didn't you get the free manure from the Royal Gardens then?  As it is a service to all the London boroughs.

Sinbad

ceres

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Re: Catastrophic Potato Problem
« Reply #41 on: June 06, 2008, 10:54:10 »
There aren't any horses here any more sinbad.  The Paddocks were given over to allotments by Royal Warrant in 1921 when they were no longer needed.

Rhubarb Thrasher

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Re: Catastrophic Potato Problem
« Reply #42 on: June 06, 2008, 10:58:38 »
shouldn't laugh, this a serious thing. I know our council composting centre test for heavy metals (they didn't have much of an answer on what they did if a batch failed), but don't know if they test for weedkiller residues. i just got my first lot of manure, and was feeling very pleased with myself. Now I wonder just which part of Chernobyl it's come from

Barnowl

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Re: Catastrophic Potato Problem
« Reply #43 on: June 06, 2008, 11:47:59 »
Hi Ceres,

Allotment's a jungle but the spuds are have good foliage apart from a couple where the damage is clearly by bugs.

Checked a few other plots and no sign of the type of damage you describe which tends to confirm it was the manure.

Very sorry for your troubles.

PS I understand manure is available from the stables in Richmond Park but I suppose there is still the  issue of checking where their straw comes from.

Sinbad7

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Re: Catastrophic Potato Problem
« Reply #44 on: June 06, 2008, 14:51:23 »
The manure from the Royal Gardens is collected from all the stables to do with the Queen.  There is too much of it for Kew and the other gardens so they have tons of it over, which is then given free of charge to all the London Boroughs, plus free delivery.  So, nothing to do with if you have horses near by.

You have to apply in writing and then you make arrangements to meet on site when the first delivery comes and away you go, you can have as many deliveries as you want.  It really is good stuff, we have been having it delivered for the last year at our site.

Sinbad

Kea

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Re: Catastrophic Potato Problem
« Reply #45 on: June 06, 2008, 18:55:01 »
Dicamba (based on my own observations from my thesis) causes bud proiliferation and epinasty followed by deformed and chloritic leaves. Translated that means lot's of buds are produced where normally you'd only have one or two; the top surface of the leaves grows faster than the underside causing the leaf to bend downwards. However I don't think dicamba could be used on a crop it would be like killing an ant with a sledge hammer. I used it on a 60ft Clematis vine with stems thicker than my arm and it and pichloram were the only things that killed the vine.

However it does look like a hormone weedkiller.....which of course act like a plant hormone and cause the plant to grow quickly first before they die, for example 2,4-D has auxin-like activity.

ACE

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Re: Catastrophic Potato Problem
« Reply #46 on: June 06, 2008, 19:44:45 »
Although not affected, I have been following this thread with interest. Earlier today I passed a barley field being sprayed. I stopped by the gate and waved the sprayer driver who came over on the next pass.

He happened to be on a spraying course with me once, so I asked if he had heard anything through the grapevine regarding your problems.

He has heard  of no bad reports and he gets a monthly magazine that comes through the trade.

What he did come up with though and it might have some relevence to your plight, and that was some of the bedding straw has been around quite a few years as new deliveries of straw gets piled on top of the old bales,  it is quite unlikely to come through on the straw in the manure as most pesticides/herbicides break down so quickly it is unlikely to stay a season in the dry straw then another season in the manure.

He would be looking at the concenrates which are full of a load of unsavoury chemicals they feed the livestock that must pass out into the manure. He would not allowed to spray some of those.

Rhubarb Thrasher

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Re: Catastrophic Potato Problem
« Reply #47 on: June 06, 2008, 20:00:07 »
maybe with farmers not able to get on the land with the flooding early summer, they used a different spaying regime

allaboutliverpool

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Re: Catastrophic Potato Problem
« Reply #48 on: June 06, 2008, 22:02:23 »
I thought that by using manure from my local stables that I was being organic -
how wrong I was!

Presumably the straw is sprayed and the feed contains spray residues.

There appears to be no end to the contamination and it makes me less worried about my slug pellets!

http://www.allaboutliverpool.com/allaboutallotments1_homepage.html

ceres

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Re: Catastrophic Potato Problem
« Reply #49 on: June 09, 2008, 22:18:58 »
Sinbad, I have pm'd you.

Many thanks to everyone who posted since I was last here.  I just got too depressed thinking about it and needed to take a break.  One of our chaps took a plant to Wisley on Friday.  The verdict was it's definitely hormone weedkiller.  They're seeing it quite often from contaminated manure apparently, so beware all!  He reckoned it will be in the soil for a couple of years.  Couldn't be more specific without knowing which weedkiller.  We asked about testing soil samples to find out.  There are about 10 substances that it could be and they can only test for each one individually at £100 per test, so worst case £1000, which of course we can't afford.  He would only express an opinion off the record on whether crops are safe to eat, but reckons if you get a crop and it looks OK then it is OK.

Our supplier hasn't yet phoned back since we left him a message, but apparently that's not unusual.

Spudders

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Re: Catastrophic Potato Problem
« Reply #50 on: June 12, 2008, 22:52:33 »
Hi

Although I have not had a problem with my spuds this year other plotholders at our allotments in Crewe Cheshire have had big problems.  My nextdoor plotholder's whole 20 rows of spuds have been affected.

Other plotholders have been affected and they all got their manure from the same farmer which was cow manure with straw.

Last year I used some manure from horse stables which was wood chip based rather than straw and it caused this problem on a bed of spuds of mine.

Perhaps more alarmingly another plotholder got some manure from a local nursery which caused the same problem.  But this manure is stored in a big heap uncovered to the elements and it must have been there for a couple of years.

I would post some pictures of the spud plants affected if I knew how.

ceres

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Re: Catastrophic Potato Problem
« Reply #51 on: June 12, 2008, 23:17:58 »
Hi spudders, sorry to hear you're haivng problems on your site too.  Someone else pm'd me yesterday that they have it too - seems to be more common than I first thought.  It's very odd though that you've had it coming from 3 different sources, don't really understand that.

But then again I don't understand our situation either!  We've heard back from the chap who supplies us.  He only rents out stable boxes to people for their horses.  They bring their own bedding - some use straw, some woodchip, some hemp and look after the horses themselves, mucking out etc.  He doesn't spray anything, so the weedkiller can only have arrived as drift over the manure heap (stored outdoors) from spraying somewhere nearby.  No way of tracing it sadly.

I've dug up all my Swift planted 28 Feb - no potatoes.  I'm trying the feed and spray regime that Trevor_D suggested to see if I can salvage anything from the rest.

If you use the search function on the forum, there are some threads on how to put pictures up - it would be good to see your problem.   

Trevor_D

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Re: Catastrophic Potato Problem
« Reply #52 on: June 13, 2008, 12:59:53 »
If I've read the information offered on this thread correctly, I've come to a few conclusions:

1 - The problem comes from compost or manure and is not air-borne (as I first thought).

2 - The culprit(s) is/are among the constituents of weedkillers used to kill broad-leafed weeds in grass. Although it becomes inert in soil, it remains in the grass & does not break down in compost or manure.

3 - The strawy element in horse manure poses the greatest risk, so if this is what we have, we need to compost it further to let it rot down. We certainly don't use it directly on crops like potatoes, tomatoes & beans. Better still, use the dark well-rotted stuff from the centre of the heap.

4 - But it can also be present in municipal recycled green waste, as this often contains grass sprayed with these weedkillers. This either comes directly back to local residents, or is sold on to commercial manufacturers of potting compost. (This explains why my greenhouse crops were affected last year: I used Council compost!)

I hope I've got this correct. Please shoot me down in flames if not!

We are telling our members to be aware of how & where they use any brought-in materials and look for any problems. And report them!!

Ceres, you say that your supplier doesn't spray. He doesn't need to: it's the bedding brought in that has been sprayed at some point and it's still present. Presumably, he mixes the whole lot together?

Sorry this is such a long post, but we do seem to have a widespread problem here that will continue unless someone finds out the root cause of it so that at least we're informed and can minimise it.

One final thing: my neighbour always manures his potatoes; this year he didn't have time and his potatoes are the healthiest you've ever seen. And another guy has had his crop ruined for the second year running: he added 30 barrow-loads of manure to his potato patch.

Need a Leek

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Re: Catastrophic Potato Problem
« Reply #53 on: June 13, 2008, 18:08:28 »
We are having this problem as well on the South Coast " West Sussex" and it also seems to be affecting beans and peas as well as spuds on our site, very strange as other veg in the same "horse" muck is thriving ???. I did start a topic a few weeks ago regarding this problem and someone kindly posted some pictures on it for me as I am having difficulties uploading them myself "claw like leaves on pots" was the title if anyone wishes to look and compare pics.

Cheers
Tony
« Last Edit: June 13, 2008, 18:24:10 by Need a Leek »
Villa villan and a two lottie nut...

shirlton

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Re: Catastrophic Potato Problem
« Reply #54 on: June 13, 2008, 18:19:15 »
Just come across this thread. Was at a meeting last week with folks from other allotments in North Birmingham. One chap told us that 15 plots had been devastated by cow manure that had come from a supplier in Aldridge. Whatever it was had killed everything. Glad I use horse manure that I have overwintered. Apparently this had also been overwintered
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George the Pigman

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Re: Catastrophic Potato Problem
« Reply #55 on: June 13, 2008, 22:12:26 »
I have a different potato problem a total of abiut 2 rows haven't produced a shoot as yet. They were planted in Late  April. Others have and look tall and healthy palnts. What could have happened?



manicscousers

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Re: Catastrophic Potato Problem
« Reply #56 on: June 13, 2008, 22:15:33 »
no idea george, some of ours didn't show either, all the rest in the bed are now flowering  ???

ceres

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Re: Catastrophic Potato Problem
« Reply #57 on: June 13, 2008, 22:36:34 »
Great summary Trevor.  I'd just add the advice you gave me and which Wisley also gave was for plants that look like they might survive, foliar feed weekly and for blight-susceptible crops, spray with bordeaux mix or equivalent at the recommended interval.

FWIW I don't think I'd buy Council compost.  I can't see that household green waste or even the parks and gardens stuff can be screened for undesirable content and I've no idea how good or otherwise their composting processes are.

This seems to be a countrywide problem but not one that much can be done about.  The way we buy the manure means we have no consumer protection.  So either we stop using manure or accept the risk each time we buy it.

Anyway, another question.  I've scraped off the manure mulch which was around my fruit, asparagus etc.  So I've now got large areas of bare soil.  I'm pondering sowing some green manure.  Question is - dig it in afterwards or pull it up and burn/compost it?  My thinking is that the weedkiller is on the straw bits in the soil.  We can't get it out, just have to wait for the strawy bits to rot.  If I sow green manure and dig it in, I'm adding nutrients back which might help next year's crops survive the remains of the weedkiller.  However, would the green manure actually contain any weedkiller?  And would digging in the green manure speed up or slow down the rotting down of the strawy bits?  Anyone got any thoughts please?

Suzanne

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Re: Catastrophic Potato Problem
« Reply #58 on: June 14, 2008, 15:20:01 »
Hi Ceres.

I wonder if the PSD can help - they should be able to give advice on how best to mitigate the issues with a hormone weedkiller. They are at www.pesticides.gov.uk and are the body responsible for regulating pesticide usage in the UK - so staffed by agronomists etc.

In terms of breakdown I personally would have thought that if the weedkillers breakdown in soil then it is likely to do with biodegradation by soil organisms - I would have thought composted would give similar levels of biodegradation.

ceres

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Re: Catastrophic Potato Problem
« Reply #59 on: June 16, 2008, 09:27:31 »
Hi Suzanne, I had looked at that website a couple of weeks ago but found it very unhelpful in terms of finding info on hormone weedkillers.  But following your suggestion, I emailed them at the weekend and got this reply this morning:

"Thank you for your email on Saturday regarding the problems you are experiencing on your allotment. You are not alone in contacting the Pesticides Safety Directorate (PSD) as we have had a large number of telephone calls, emails and letters. We do understand the distress that this is causing members of your society and we are going to issue a Regulatory Update this week. So if you could keep checking our website home page for the update."

 

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