Topic: compost??

[Baccy Man]

Female urine contains oestrogen (women who are on the pill [oestrogen ethynylestradiol] will produce much higher concentrations) this does not affect it's use as a compost activator it will work just as well as male urine. The reason it is not reccommended is because the oestrogen can leach into the groundwater where even very low levels can have drastic effects on wildlife particularly fish & amphibians.
Using frogs an an example it is during the tadpole stage that reproductive organs begin to develop in frogs, a process that is regulated by the hormone system. When tadpoles swim in water with low concentrations of oestrogen , all of them develop ovaries instead of what is the normal process - that half of the frogs develop ovaries and the other half testicles. No male frogs = no future generations. Same goes for fish & other amphibians.
Having said all that it will actually make very little difference as synthetic oestrogen behaves like DDT did & creates an oestrogenic effect.
Synthetic oestrogen can be found in phalates which are used in the manufacture of plastics. From breakfast to baby products, milk bottles, shopping bags, plastic food wrapping, plastic containers, clingfilm and soft toys, there aren’t many plastics that don’t include this chemical.
DES, a synthetic hormone used in the farming of cattle and chickens.
The list is endless just open your kitchen and bathroom cupboards and everyday products like detergents, soaps, shampoos, and creams all have synthetic oestrogen in them. Most of them will end up leaching it into the water system at some point. The only difference adding female urine to a compost heap will make will be that the oestrogen ends up on your ground rather than entering the sewage system & entering the groundwater somewhere else.

If you want to learn how to compost properly try this site.
http://www.csimba.com/compost/

[franklynn]

Hi Baccy Man

Is that all true or are you just extracting the urine
Frank 

[Old bird]

Hi Baccy Man!

What a comprehensive explanation!!

Presumably even if we girls pee into the sewage system the oestrogen still stays after the regeneration and filtration systems then it is re- used back into  the water supply system in - say - places like London - where water is collected - treated - and then re-used!

Presumably also as an "Old Girl" there will be less oestrogen and so we are more environmentally friendly!!

 ;D :o

[star]

What a lovely explanation baccy man. Though Im a little confused......is it only ladeees taking the pill who contribute to the oestrogen levels or is it naturally occuring in the urine?

If its naturally occurring then (my confusion) surely male urine will contain testosterone, will that not effect the balance of amphibians/fish in water courses.

I m not trying to be contradictory......I just havent got the full understanding of all this.

Thanks for being patient in advance ;)

[RosieMcPosie]

star, was just thinking the same thing!!
 ???
all the same, i have no ponds/streams/ etc near our plot so i'm hoping it doesn't mess with nature too much!

[Baccy Man]

It is the higher levels caused by the pill that cause the most concern. There is one example given in this news story.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1877162.stm

There are 18 types of oestrogen found in human urine, it is found in male urine as well as female, levels in men are low & don't fluctuate levels in women fluctuate with the menstrual cycle & are consistently high during pregnancy.
http://uk.encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761572261/Oestrogen.html

[star]

Thanks so much for that ;), its amazing how ignorant I feel sometimes :-[.

[caroline7758]

I see that BBC article is from 2002. No doubt somebody's managed to prove the opposite by now. ;D

[Baccy Man]

I see that BBC article is from 2002. No doubt somebody's managed to prove the opposite by now. ;D

This article was published in June 2007 after a 7 year study had been completed with very similar results.
http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/pages/item.php?news=1266

The full report from the study is availiable in a 1.13mb pdf file here.
http://www.pnas.org/cgi/reprint/0609568104v1

[Tee Gee]

has anyone noticed something I did on the last link?

pnas  ::) ::) 8)

[star]

(What's pnas?)

At the bottom of your link its states no human waste, I agree the solids should be kept out of the compost bin. Except in the case of top fruit.

I belong to an Organic growing and sustainability project and we have compost toilets, the solids go to make compost for trees, fruit trees and other top fruit bushes.

I am presuming this is the part of the link you refer to Tee Gee?

[manicscousers]

that's what I would like to put on the allotment site next year, Star..compost toilets..I'll have to wait to see how much we make from our plant sale, then broach the idea with the rest of the members
it's ok for the lads, they've made their own, we ladies either have to brave the lads in the club watching footie or pee in a bucket in our sheds..bit of a squash in there with the tools and stuff  ;D

[caroline7758]

I thought TeeGee was referring to pnas as sounding like the source of the aforementioned pee! ;D

[star]

Ok, thanks Caroline.......I am easily confused.

Must be me age, well I am 21 plus VAT :P ::)

[Tee Gee]

I am presuming this is the part of the link you refer to Tee Gee?

No look at your link again;.....www .PNAS.org

[star]

I am presuming this is the part of the link you refer to Tee Gee?

No look at your link again;.....www .PNAS.org

Thank you Tee Gee....I finally got it. Yes the first part of the PNAS link is easily understood, even by me. But the scientific bit is waay over my head....I understand the simpler versions on all explanations.

I did hear about this years ago. Alas, my memory is not serving me too well these days :-\

Thanks all for your patience :-* ;)

[kt.]

Could start here:

http://www.recyclenow.org.uk/home_composting/