Topic: Crop Rotation

[Sparky]

Been reading a couple of books on veg growing and kept reading about rotation.  Each book seems to suggest different crop groupings and i am getting more confused.  What does anyone else do?  Is a three year or four year rotation better?

 ???
Sparky

[rdak]

Interesting question to raise Sparky...hope you don't mind but I've started a poll.
I have decided to keep things simple and have planned around a 3 bed system- Roots / Brassicas / Others. Only problem is, my plan for this year is about 60% Other...so will need to be growing lots of Brassicas next year!!
From what I've read though, the crop rotation systems can get quite theoretical about optimum conditions, so don't feel you have to obey them completely. There are a few golden rules (like don't grow potatoes in the same place consecutively, can't remember the other ones and I think it depends on what actually happens with your crop throughout the year i.e. pests etc.). If you get too fixed on rotation it can give you a right headache!!

[allotment_chick]

Hi Sparky - I use a four bed system - best advice I found was on the hdra website

http://www.hdra.org.uk/factsheets/gg19.htm

With most things gardening, I find, you have to find a basic principle and, rather than follow it slavishly, adjust it to suit what you eat and how you grow it.  I was having problems with the brassica rotation (I don't grow the ususal 'greens' as we don't like them) and substituted cut flowers instead - seemed to work.  Now I've discovered pak-choi and am growing swede, so I'll fiddle about with it a bit.  

I use  it simply as a way to ensure the right fertiliser goes on the right bed and to ensure I don't grow the same things in the same place every year!  Happy rotating !

AC

[cleo]

As Ross has said it can get a bit involved. And on a small scale-Garden/Lottie it`s more about growing conditions and nutrient than disease control.

So rules that help are do not grow root crops in freshly mucked soil(can lead to root splitting)grow greens where the legumes were-nitrogen fixed by the legumes is helpful.

And indeed those beds are never the correct size for one`s needs.

I know this is not very scientific just the way I see things.

stephan

[Mrs Ava]

I know already that I will be dreadful at this.  My plan is simple, my runners will stay in the same place year after year, my spuds will move, along with my onions and greens from year to year, but my roots and salads will just fit in where ever I have the room and the ground ready.  My new plot is going to be my sweetcorn and pumpkin patch, next year this will be my spud patch....I figure peas may well stay in the same place for a few years, but depending on how the land lies, these may move.  Very scientific me thinks  ::)

[Hugh_Jones]

Oh dear no, EJ.  Peas in the same place for several years is not a good idea. Although you may get away with it for two or three years (but no guarantee of even that), repeated growing on the same site can result in the build up in the soil of any one or more of the following:-

Sclerotinia - a real nasty which can affect other crops as well
Pea Wilt
Bacterial Blight
And Root Rot causing fungi:Apanomyces Euteiches & Pythium Ultimum

Growing french beans repeatedly in the same spot can also lead to the build up of soil borne diseases (but I won`t frighten you further)

So include them both in your rotation

[Mrs Ava]

aha...okay Hugh, they will move also....so, runners are about the only thing that will stay put - them and fruit of course.  Mind you, what about strawbs.  Should they be moved after a couple of years?

At least with 1 and a half plots I have room to move things about.  Wonder if I will get the other half a plot  :-\

[legless]

i have a system but it's fairly random. i have 22 beds and each bed will be on a 4 year rotation with salads etc fitting in anywhere i can't make it work, this way i can grow potatoes in several different beds (ie not all together) and so on. might work. might not....

[tim]

Strawberries, EJ - because they fruit best on young plants, I have always 'runnered' a new row each year, alongside t'others. So, the straw bed moves slowly up the garden..

Pity Ina's on hols, or she would have had a word to say, I'm sure!! = Tim

[Muddy_Boots]

Just an observation, not scientific in any way.  The soft fruit farmers around here always grow their strawberries on the same fields year after year with no adverse effects.  On that basis, I am assuming strawberry beds don't need to be rotated!

Oh to be full of wisdom and to be able to contribute here in a sensible manner  :D

However, I am getting older year by year, so still have time to learn  ;D ;D ;D

[Sparky]

Thanks for all the words of wisdom.  Will sit down and plan at the weekend!!  HDRA site was also really helpful 8)

[Hugh_Jones]

MB, I think you will find that the strawberry farmers actually keep the plants in the same place for 3 years - which is about all the average strawberry plant is good for - and during the 3rd year they`re planting up another field for the next 3 years crops. If they kept to the same fields they would lose at least part of a year`s profits through replanting. The original field is usually then ploughed, and put to another crop for a couple of years before heavy manuring and putting back to strawberries.  The strawberry growers around my area mainly use potatoes, carrots and legumes for the purpose.

[aquilegia]

I have a rather small veg patch (about three meters by 50cm).

First year (this was before I dug it over) I only grew runners in the ground (at the back up the fence).

Second year (after we dug it, manured, got rid of the stones, etc) I grew toms, runners (in same place), broad beans, sweetcorn, courgettes in different sections of the veg bed.

This year I'm growing toms (some in same section as last year, some in different), root crops (leeks, garlic, carrots and parnsips) and runners up the back.

My 'system' is to stick to the basic rules (ie not putting carrots and parsnips in manured soil) and not growing the same thing in the same place for more than two years in a row.

I'm also going to put other crops in pots and in amongst the flowers.

I don't grow brasicas and have no idea where tomatoes fit in!

[Hugh_Jones]

Aquilegia, if you`re going to grow all that in a plot 10ft x 1ft 8inches, then you have my admiration

[Ceri]

I wanted lots of nice little beds in the lottie, but rapidly running out of time to create them.  For now, I'm trying a Bob Flowerdew companion planting recommendation of potatoes, sweetcorn and peas in the one big bed (the top third of my half lottie plot), with other things in smaller beds - onions and garlic in from autum in one, roots will go in the next and beans and other bits and bobs in the next few beds.   If the companion planting works will pull that down to the bottom third next year and move everything else up one.  Difficulty I find with rotation is the space needed for different crops can vary widely and hard to fit with pre-set beds.

[aquilegia]

Hugh - not all my veg is going in the veg patch. Most of it will be in with the flowers. The garden is small and squareish so I don't really have anywhere convenient to hide my veg patch.

[philcooper]

Back at to the original question, which has, as usual caused several detailed and valid discussions. What scheme to use and hoiw many years.

The aim is to prevent the build up of diseases and spread the "load" on the soil, as each type of veg has different demands.

The minimum recommended (as in the Ryton fact sheet) is 3 years with a split of roots, brassicas and legumes. When you look at the needs of the groups (and what they don't want) you find brassicas benefit from whilst potatoes don't like it, roots such as carrots and parsnips don't like freshly manured ground (it causes forked roots) - but potatoes do like muck, brassicas like nitrogen and legumes supply it.

So a workable 3 year rotation is legume, brassica and then roots and 3 years is the recommended mimimum to prevent the build up of pests and diseases

A 4 year rotation would split out roots from potatoes  and further reduce the risk of the pest/disease problems